Look Out, Quality Road

[NTamm1215]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

I wouldn't hold the defeat to Zenyatta against St. Trinians that much.

Look, St. Trinians hadn't raced in over 3 months coming into it - and the connections say she lost a shoe on the turn... so I'm willing to forgive the performance.

And lets face it... it's not like Zenyatta is a total bum either. She's easily one of the 35 best mares to run in So. Cal over the last 10 years or so.





Maybe you're right ... but why did you feel the need to add the "at Del Mar" part at the end?

Gio Ponti is based on the other side of the country ... he's run only once at Del Mar on turf (his best surface) and he was beaten by the hapless Madeo as a 4/5 favorite.

It's not like his resume is stellar on synthetics .. off the board in a longshot everywhere Dubai World Cup. 2nd to Zenyatta in the Classic. And 5th to Cowboy Cal in the Strub ... those are his last 3 attempts on a synthetic track.

You made it sound like he has some kind of home court edge at Del Mar.

As far as my characterization of St. Trinians, that was really more of a compliment than anything else. I thought she ran a terrific race against Z, I've never said anything to the contrary.

The Del Mar Derby that Gio Ponti lost to Madeo in was certainly one of his disappointing efforts, he was 9-10 to win the race. Madeo benefited from an absolutely perfect trip and GP was also victimized by an overconfident ride from Garrett Gomez. I think that 2009, for the most part, made it clear that Gio Ponti was a different animal at 4 than he was at 3. After all, he was subsequently beaten twice by Court Vision (with the HOL Derby being circumstancial).

Gio Ponti ran a good race in the Dubai World Cup to finish fourth rallying into that viciously slow pace. His Strub was more of an aberration than anything else because he certainly ran well in the Sir Beaufort and BCC. I mean, Doug, after all, you and I have been told here dozens of times that that was like the greatest Classic field ever.

As far as me including Del Mar, that really was inconsequential. Obviously neither have started at Del Mar so it'd be impossible to determine who has any type of edge there. If St. Trinians were to come out and run a huge race again vs. Zenyatta then clearly you would think that she'd have an edge on Gio Ponti.

The thing to me about St. Trinians is that I don't really see her becoming considerably better at ten furlongs and her likely getting a little weary late. Could there be circumstances that lead to her getting the distance without a problem? Sure, but I would be more inclined to think GP's two best synthetic races are as good, if not better than any of St. Trinians prior races (or 1 and 1) and that he'd have an edge at the distance.

NT

[The Indomitable DrugS]

I was mostly just needling you. You typically have a good take but are skilled at spoiling the take with inconsequential silliness.

[NTamm1215]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

I was mostly just needling you. You typically have a good take but are skilled at spoiling the take with inconsequential silliness.

I had a feeling you were put up to it by a certain numskull.

NT

[the_fat_man]

Originally Posted by NTamm1215

I think that 2009, for the most part, made it clear that Gio Ponti was a different animal at 4 than he was at 3. After all, he was subsequently beaten twice by Court Vision (with the HOL Derby being circumstancial).



NT

He had a whole bunch of bad rides/luck as a three year old. Then they took Gomez off and GP started getting good luck, and Ventura (in the race she lost to GP, among others) started getting some of that bad (GG) luck.

You sound like the connections of Tasty Temptation with that comment. After she won her last race, easily handling Milwaukee Appeal, her nemesis of last year, Casse says something to the effect "she better this year" and the owners echoed it. No she's not, dumbasses, she's just not getting that widest no cover move too early move from Husbands -- so far.

[NTamm1215]

Originally Posted by the_fat_man

He had a whole bunch of bad rides/luck as a three year old. Then they took Gomez off and GP started getting good luck, and Ventura (in the race she lost to GP, among others) started getting some of that bad (GG) luck.

You sound like the connections of Tasty Temptation with that comment. After she won her last race, easily handling Milwaukee Appeal, her nemesis of last year, Casse says something to the effect "she better this year" and the owners echoed it. No she's not, dumbasses, she's just not getting that widest no cover move too early move from Husbands -- so far.

I liked him from Day 1 but I still don't think he ran races as a 3YO, even with trouble, that were remotely close to his Man O' War and Arlington Million last year. Sure, the Hill Prince and Va Derby were good races as was the Del Mar Derby, but a wide/uncovered trip in the Man O'War last year didn't adversely impact him at all. I thought he developed with time.

NT

[CSC]

Originally Posted by NTamm1215

I liked him from Day 1 but I still don't think he ran races as a 3YO, even with trouble, that were remotely close to his Man O' War and Arlington Million last year. Sure, the Hill Prince and Va Derby were good races as was the Del Mar Derby, but a wide/uncovered trip in the Man O'War last year didn't adversely impact him at all. I thought he developed with time.

NT

It's Ramon, notice how Better Talk Now's career took off when Ramon took over the riding duties over Douglas, Prado, ect...There are times riders get unjust credit for winning rides but in the case of Ramon I truly believe the horse wouldn't have had half the career he had, had Ramon never ridden him.

[blackthroatedwind]

It's interesting that the great ride Gomez gave him in last year's Manhattan is being casually ignored.

[LARHAGE]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

It's interesting that the great ride Gomez gave him in last year's Manhattan is being casually ignored.

As is the bad ride Dominguez gave him in this years Manhattan, and he was a jump away from repeating it in the Man of War.

[CSC]

Originally Posted by LARHAGE

As is the bad ride Dominguez gave him in this years Manhattan, and he was a jump away from repeating it in the Man of War.

That wasn't a bad ride, the race was paceless, you had a former claimer on an easy lead. Ramon recognized this, rode GP as he was the best horse and won without taking the horse out of his preferred style. This is precisely why I mentioned Better Talk Now, he was the one rider that understood how to get the most out of this horse, I've seen Douglas try to lay BTN closer to the pace and he wasn't as effective. Having Gio Ponti press the leaders or up on the pace would be counter productive to the horse's style.

[the_fat_man]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

It's interesting that the great ride Gomez gave him in last year's Manhattan is being casually ignored.

What deserves more notice: going fast in a single lane with stop signs with a ton of traffic or going fast on the auto-bon with 'a lot' of traffic?

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by the_fat_man

What deserves more notice: going fast in a single lane with stop signs with a ton of traffic or going fast on the auto-bon with 'a lot' of traffic?

I agree that Ramon's ride in this year's Manhattan was in some ways better but Gomez did ride him well last time.

Look, I'm not Gomez's biggest fan, I think he's obviously very good but just haven't seen why some say he is the best, but I think you're a little unfair about his rides on Ventura. If she is as good as many say, her moves wouldn't need pinpoint timing. I think she's just not as good as many believe. A jockey shouldn't be required to make absolutely perfect moves, with a horse that is usually a heavy favorite, in order to win.

[asudevil]

Will Rail Trip jump up on the dirt? Mr. Baffert always says that running on the synth's is like racing with galoshes on. How much can he improve? I'm sure Dicky will change his shoes and give his teeth a polishing.

[the_fat_man]

No doubt he ran some exceptional races as a 4 year old. But when you consider that he also 'should've' won the Del Mar Derby, the Jamaica, and the Holywood Derby, you get a sense of how good a 3 year old he really was.

More importantly, when we consider, in the context of the present discussion, that Gomez cost GP a G1 and a G2 (as a 3 year old) and Ventura at least 2 G1's, you get a sense of how bad that clown really is.

[10 pnt move up]

Originally Posted by asudevil

Will Rail Trip jump up on the dirt? Mr. Baffert always says that running on the synth's is like racing with galoshes on. How much can he improve? I'm sure Dicky will change his shoes and give his teeth a polishing.

his figures surely will but his ability is not changing. He is talented and figures prominently in any mile race.