Look Out, Quality Road

[NTamm1215]

Originally Posted by the_fat_man

He had a whole bunch of bad rides/luck as a three year old. Then they took Gomez off and GP started getting good luck, and Ventura (in the race she lost to GP, among others) started getting some of that bad (GG) luck.

You sound like the connections of Tasty Temptation with that comment. After she won her last race, easily handling Milwaukee Appeal, her nemesis of last year, Casse says something to the effect "she better this year" and the owners echoed it. No she's not, dumbasses, she's just not getting that widest no cover move too early move from Husbands -- so far.

I liked him from Day 1 but I still don't think he ran races as a 3YO, even with trouble, that were remotely close to his Man O' War and Arlington Million last year. Sure, the Hill Prince and Va Derby were good races as was the Del Mar Derby, but a wide/uncovered trip in the Man O'War last year didn't adversely impact him at all. I thought he developed with time.

NT

[CSC]

Originally Posted by NTamm1215

I liked him from Day 1 but I still don't think he ran races as a 3YO, even with trouble, that were remotely close to his Man O' War and Arlington Million last year. Sure, the Hill Prince and Va Derby were good races as was the Del Mar Derby, but a wide/uncovered trip in the Man O'War last year didn't adversely impact him at all. I thought he developed with time.

NT

It's Ramon, notice how Better Talk Now's career took off when Ramon took over the riding duties over Douglas, Prado, ect...There are times riders get unjust credit for winning rides but in the case of Ramon I truly believe the horse wouldn't have had half the career he had, had Ramon never ridden him.

[blackthroatedwind]

It's interesting that the great ride Gomez gave him in last year's Manhattan is being casually ignored.

[LARHAGE]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

It's interesting that the great ride Gomez gave him in last year's Manhattan is being casually ignored.

As is the bad ride Dominguez gave him in this years Manhattan, and he was a jump away from repeating it in the Man of War.

[CSC]

Originally Posted by LARHAGE

As is the bad ride Dominguez gave him in this years Manhattan, and he was a jump away from repeating it in the Man of War.

That wasn't a bad ride, the race was paceless, you had a former claimer on an easy lead. Ramon recognized this, rode GP as he was the best horse and won without taking the horse out of his preferred style. This is precisely why I mentioned Better Talk Now, he was the one rider that understood how to get the most out of this horse, I've seen Douglas try to lay BTN closer to the pace and he wasn't as effective. Having Gio Ponti press the leaders or up on the pace would be counter productive to the horse's style.

[hockey2315]

Originally Posted by CSC

That wasn't a bad ride, the race was paceless, you had a former claimer on an easy lead. Ramon recognized this, rode GP as he was the best horse and won without taking the horse out of his preferred style. This is precisely why I mentioned Better Talk Now, he was the one rider that understood how to get the most out of this horse, I've seen Douglas try to lay BTN closer to the pace and he wasn't as effective. Having Gio Ponti press the leaders or up on the pace would be counter productive to the horse's style.

It was a risky ride. He doesn't need to be that far off the pace. If you're behind Grand Couturier early, you're doing something wrong.

[CSC]

Originally Posted by hockey2315

It was a risky ride. He doesn't need to be that far off the pace. If you're behind Grand Couturier early, you're doing something wrong.

If he had never ridden him before, yes I would agree. I think this was a case of a rider knowing his horse and the turn of foot he had.

Edit- The one thing I hate are riders that panic and improvise during races. Ie. early moves. It is one of Ramon's best qualities as a rider, he's cool as a cucumber and yes at times it may get him into trouble, however more times than not it pays off.

[Dahoss]

Originally Posted by hockey2315

It was a risky ride. He doesn't need to be that far off the pace. If you're behind Grand Couturier early, you're doing something wrong.

I agree, it was a risky ride. But I don't think it was nearly as bad as some are making it out to be. My take and it's possible I'm way off is Gio Ponti is better when he is allowed to make one sweeping wide run. If you notice, Dominguez had chances to draft up inside of Bearpath, but chose not to. He probably would have liked to get around Midnite Silver also, but he was moving too quick to.

All in all, I thought it was a perfect set up to whatever race they are aiming at, because he only ran for about one furlong.

[the_fat_man]

Originally Posted by hockey2315

It was a risky ride. He doesn't need to be that far off the pace. If you're behind Grand Couturier early, you're doing something wrong.

This was a riding clinic by Dominguez. Dominguez by his riding shows that he has a HIGH LEVEL understanding of setups. (Listening to other jocks speak, as well as witnessing their rides, indicates that they don't). It's common to assume that a horse loose on the lead in very slow fractions just won't come back. This is true when this horse is bid at prematurely. When you try to get a horse like this late turn or early stretch, you'll fail, as, more often than not, this horse will have enough to come back again. We see this countless times in races. Try to get the same horse late stretch, and in most cases you'll succeed. Dominguez showed this, with confidence, last week. Anyone else on GP, panics, rushes him on the turn, and probably has the speed come back again. Dominguez goes by him in a hand ride.

[LARHAGE]

Originally Posted by CSC

That wasn't a bad ride, the race was paceless, you had a former claimer on an easy lead. Ramon recognized this, rode GP as he was the best horse and won without taking the horse out of his preferred style. This is precisely why I mentioned Better Talk Now, he was the one rider that understood how to get the most out of this horse, I've seen Douglas try to lay BTN closer to the pace and he wasn't as effective. Having Gio Ponti press the leaders or up on the pace would be counter productive to the horse's style.

Strangling a horse off a 1.18 mile is recognizing the pace? It almost cost him losing to another longshot.

[CSC]

Originally Posted by LARHAGE

Strangling a horse off a 1.18 mile is recognizing the pace? It almost cost him losing to another longshot.

The horse was not strangled, he was rating kindly, please watch the replay. It was also a comfortable win, and it would have been even more decisive had he not run up on Expansion's heels. Watch the end of that race, he was never in trouble or stretched to win.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by LARHAGE

Strangling a horse off a 1.18 mile is recognizing the pace? It almost cost him losing to another longshot.

He didn't strangle him.

[the_fat_man]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

It's interesting that the great ride Gomez gave him in last year's Manhattan is being casually ignored.

What deserves more notice: going fast in a single lane with stop signs with a ton of traffic or going fast on the auto-bon with 'a lot' of traffic?

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by the_fat_man

What deserves more notice: going fast in a single lane with stop signs with a ton of traffic or going fast on the auto-bon with 'a lot' of traffic?

I agree that Ramon's ride in this year's Manhattan was in some ways better but Gomez did ride him well last time.

Look, I'm not Gomez's biggest fan, I think he's obviously very good but just haven't seen why some say he is the best, but I think you're a little unfair about his rides on Ventura. If she is as good as many say, her moves wouldn't need pinpoint timing. I think she's just not as good as many believe. A jockey shouldn't be required to make absolutely perfect moves, with a horse that is usually a heavy favorite, in order to win.

[the_fat_man]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

If she is as good as many say, her moves wouldn't need pinpoint timing. I think she's just not as good as many believe. A jockey shouldn't be required to make absolutely perfect moves, with a horse that is usually a heavy favorite, in order to win.

Not the case on POLY, where it's not so hard to overcome pace errors. She lost to GP when Gomez was fumbling around with reins rather than just hand riding to the wire. He lost the race at KEE when he moved very prematurely, allowing the winner, who he had passed, to last move him. And he fell asleep in the BC. Honestly, the dude is the best finisher in the game but that's really pretty much the only area where he's better than a whole slew of other jocks.

[10 pnt move up]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

A jockey shouldn't be required to make absolutely perfect moves, with a horse that is usually a heavy favorite, in order to win.

one of your better quotes

[Rupert Pupkin]

Ellis speaks:

http://www.sgvtribune.com/sports/ci_15529225

http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/hor...emy&id=5384035