Look Out, Quality Road

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by the_fat_man

What deserves more notice: going fast in a single lane with stop signs with a ton of traffic or going fast on the auto-bon with 'a lot' of traffic?

I agree that Ramon's ride in this year's Manhattan was in some ways better but Gomez did ride him well last time.

Look, I'm not Gomez's biggest fan, I think he's obviously very good but just haven't seen why some say he is the best, but I think you're a little unfair about his rides on Ventura. If she is as good as many say, her moves wouldn't need pinpoint timing. I think she's just not as good as many believe. A jockey shouldn't be required to make absolutely perfect moves, with a horse that is usually a heavy favorite, in order to win.

[the_fat_man]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

If she is as good as many say, her moves wouldn't need pinpoint timing. I think she's just not as good as many believe. A jockey shouldn't be required to make absolutely perfect moves, with a horse that is usually a heavy favorite, in order to win.

Not the case on POLY, where it's not so hard to overcome pace errors. She lost to GP when Gomez was fumbling around with reins rather than just hand riding to the wire. He lost the race at KEE when he moved very prematurely, allowing the winner, who he had passed, to last move him. And he fell asleep in the BC. Honestly, the dude is the best finisher in the game but that's really pretty much the only area where he's better than a whole slew of other jocks.

[10 pnt move up]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

A jockey shouldn't be required to make absolutely perfect moves, with a horse that is usually a heavy favorite, in order to win.

one of your better quotes

[Rupert Pupkin]

Ellis speaks:

http://www.sgvtribune.com/sports/ci_15529225

http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/hor...emy&id=5384035

[the_fat_man]

'Ellis wasn't surprised.

"Shocked would be a better word," he said. '

I know how that feels, Ron.

Like when you kept riding Valdivia last year and he kept blowing races on this horse.

You and the owners might've been clueless to this but justice is served, IMO.

Of course, Ron is 'astute' enough to note the bad ride last out on RT by Bejarano. Can't get any sharper than that.

And away we go.................

[cakes44]

Frankel tried the Valdivia thing in the early 90's. It didn't work out.

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by the_fat_man

'Ellis wasn't surprised.

"Shocked would be a better word," he said. '

I know how that feels, Ron.

Like when you kept riding Valdivia last year and he kept blowing races on this horse.

You and the owners might've been clueless to this but justice is served, IMO.

Of course, Ron is 'astute' enough to note the bad ride last out on RT by Bejarano. Can't get any sharper than that.

And away we go.................

Tell me what Valdivia should have done differently in those two races (The Mervyn LeRoy and the Californian). In the first race he got beat, they were trying to teach the horse to rate. They laid 2nd behind Ball Four and they never caught him. In the next race, they obviously couldn't give Ball four too easy of a lead because they were afraid he would go wire-to-wire again. So they laid about a length off him on a moderate pace. They beat him that time but they didn't beat Informed.

[the_fat_man]

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

Tell me what Valdivia should have done differently in those two races (The Mervyn LeRoy and the Californian). In the first race he got beat, they were trying to teach the horse to rate. They laid 2nd behind Ball Four and they never caught him. In the next race, they obviously couldn't give Ball four too easy of a lead because they were afraid he would go wire-to-wire again. So they laid about a length off him on a moderate pace. They beat him that time but they didn't beat Informed.

I don't know if I'm on record about his trips. You can try a search. The point, however, is that this horse is fast enough to, basically, control ANY route race up to 10F. It took Valdivia until the Gold Cup to get this right (excluding the races where he was beating nothing) -- and he need a 2-1 finish around the track to do it. As soon as he lost with this horse, they should've booted his ass. Not a year later, and, after he'd left for the east coast.

JMO

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by the_fat_man

I don't know if I'm on record about his trips. You can try a search. The point, however, is that this horse is fast enough to, basically, control ANY route race up to 10F. It took Valdivia until the Gold Cup to get this right (excluding the races where he was beating nothing) -- and he need a 2-1 finish around the track to do it. As soon as he lost with this horse, they should've booted his ass. Not a year later, and, after he'd left for the east coast.

JMO

Your memory isn't very good. He didn't go to the lead in the Gold Cup with Valdivia. Valdivia rode him the same way he rode him in the Mervyn Leroy and the Californian. He was laying 2nd. He was sitting about 3 lengths off Tres Barrachos, who went the half in :47 4/5.

They always knew that the horse could get the lead if they wanted him on the lead. But if you have a horse by Jump Start that is a one-dimensional speed horse, you're going to have a hard time getting 1 1/4 miles against the best horses. They had to teach the horse to rate if he was going to be able win at 1 1/4 miles.

That's not to say that he shouldn't be on the lead if he can get an easy lead in moderate fractions. But the horse needs to be able to rate if another horse is gunning for the lead. In the race this past weekend, Compari was gunning to the lead no matter what. It would have been very foolish for Rail Trip to try to get the lead. They would have ended up going :45 and change and they would have had no shot. What Bejarano should have done was let Compari go but he should have been sitting right off Compari's flank. He should have been a length back, not 4 back when they're going :51. If he was sitting a length back, like he should have been, he would have only ended up only 2 wide on the turn and he would have won.