Black Caviar at Royal Ascot Saturday AM

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

Who was better?

Chinook Pass

Midnight Lute

[Calzone Lord]

Originally Posted by v j stauffer

Chinook Pass

Very doubtful. He was 0-for-3 lifetime in Graded Stakes races and got caught at Los Al in his California debut.

Maybe the fastest horse for a quarter mile or half mile of all-time -- but he does not belong in the discussion of all-time top dirt sprinters IMO.

Originally Posted by Calzone Lord

Very doubtful. He was 0-for-3 lifetime in Graded Stakes races and got caught at Los Al in his California debut.

Maybe the fastest horse for a quarter mile or half mile of all-time -- but he does not belong in the discussion of all-time top dirt sprinters IMO.

Laffit Pincay told me he was not only the best sprinter he ever rode, but one of the best horses period.

I think he very much does belong in that discussion.

[Calzone Lord]

Pincay Jr. is a jockey. Chinook Pass never won a Graded Stakes race. He was just 1-for-5 lifetime beyond 6.5 furlongs. He was a run-off speed horse.

Here is the lifetime record of Chinook Pass when he had a lead of 1.5 lengths or less at the 1st call.

June 27th 1981: Washington Bred maiden race at Long Acres. Chinook Pass leads by 1.5 lengths at 1st call. Wins by 2 lengths.

Aug 30th 1981: Gottstein Futurity for Washington Breds at Long Acres: Chinook Pass led by only a half length at the 1st call -- he finished 11th beaten 17 lengths.

April 10th 1982: $3,000 Allowance race at Portland Meadows. Chinook Pass led by only 1 length after the 1st call. He won the race by one length.

July 5th 1982: Seattle Slew handicap at Long Acres. Chinook Pass led by just a head at the 1st call. He finished last of 14 and was eased in the stretch.

Aug 22nd 1982: Long Acres Mile. Chinook Pass leads by just a half length at the 1st call. Finishes 2nd.

Nov 14th 1982: National Sprint Challenge Division 2: Chinook Pass had a poor start and didn't make the lead. Finished 3rd.

Jan 2nd 1983: Malibu Stakes at Santa Anita. Chinook Pass leads by 1.5 lengths at the 1st call. Finishes 6th beaten 16 lengths.

Mar 13th 1983: Phoenix Gold Cup at Turf Paradise: Chinook Pass is only in front by a head at the 1st call. Finishes 5th at odds of 2/5.

Just a record of 8-2-1-0. One of the two wins came in a Washington Bred maiden race. The other came in a $3,000 allowance race at Portland Meadows.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by Calzone Lord

Pincay Jr. is a jockey. Chinook Pass never won a Graded Stakes race. He was just 1-for-5 lifetime beyond 6.5 furlongs. He was a run-off speed horse.

Here is the lifetime record of Chinook Pass when he had a lead of 1.5 lengths or less at the 1st call.

June 27th 1981: Washington Bred maiden race at Long Acres. Chinook Pass leads by 1.5 lengths at 1st call. Wins by 2 lengths.

Aug 30th 1981: Gottstein Futurity for Washington Breds at Long Acres: Chinook Pass led by only a half length at the 1st call -- he finished 11th beaten 17 lengths.

April 10th 1982: $3,000 Allowance race at Portland Meadows. Chinook Pass led by only 1 length after the 1st call. He won the race by one length.

July 5th 1982: Seattle Slew handicap at Long Acres. Chinook Pass led by just a head at the 1st call. He finished last of 14 and was eased in the stretch.

Aug 22nd 1982: Long Acres Mile. Chinook Pass leads by just a half length at the 1st call. Finishes 2nd.

Nov 14th 1982: National Sprint Challenge Division 2: Chinook Pass had a poor start and didn't make the lead. Finished 3rd.

Jan 2nd 1983: Malibu Stakes at Santa Anita. Chinook Pass leads by 1.5 lengths at the 1st call. Finishes 6th beaten 16 lengths.

Mar 13th 1983: Phoenix Gold Cup at Turf Paradise: Chinook Pass is only in front by a head at the 1st call. Finishes 5th at odds of 2/5.

Just a record of 8-2-1-0. One of the two wins came in a Washington Bred maiden race. The other came in a $3,000 allowance race at Portland Meadows.

He was clearly in the class of Groovy and Phone Trick.

[Indian Charlie]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

He was clearly in the class of Groovy and Phone Trick.

Especially as a four year old.

Anyone who ever saw that horse run when he was older knew they were watching greatness.

I'd like to have seen Ack Ack run. Were you ever so lucky to see him race?

[Indian Charlie]

Originally Posted by Calzone Lord

Very doubtful. He was 0-for-3 lifetime in Graded Stakes races and got caught at Los Al in his California debut.

Maybe the fastest horse for a quarter mile or half mile of all-time -- but he does not belong in the discussion of all-time top dirt sprinters IMO.

You speak in ignorance with this one. The graded stakes race thing is meaningless. Racing was different back then (the way stakes were structured) and quite a few of those listed stakes are now graded. It's too bad you've never seen video of him run.