WI Union-busting provisions added in budget committee

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

lol
No one knocks teachers but anyone who can't see the damage done to the education system by teachers unions just isnt looking very hard.

And anyone who can't appreciate how teachers unions have kept people in teaching, classrooms a manageable size, etc. isn't looking very hard.

Good and bad to teachers unions, but remember that they don't dictate or bargain alone. Have to hold the other signers of the contracts equally responsible if something bad is there.

What is sad is tying tax cuts to businesses to teachers unions. Hardworking, job creators are suddenly the bad guys and fatcat union bosses are the good guys.

Just reading those newly-created Republican words off the playsheet?

If tax cuts help "job creators", 2000-2008 would have been a huge economic boom. It was a disaster. As the tax cuts during Reagan were.

Facts have a liberal bias.

[Danzig]

teachers unions pushed smaller class size, saying that would help...all that did was put more dues into the union, it certainly didn't change test scores.
unions are a business, and of course their number one concern is making money.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Riot

And anyone who can't appreciate how teachers unions have kept people in teaching, classrooms a manageable size, etc. isn't looking very hard.

Good and bad to teachers unions, but remember that they don't dictate or bargain alone. Have to hold the other signers of the contracts equally responsible if something bad is there.



Just reading those newly-created Republican words off the playsheet?

If tax cuts help "job creators", 2000-2008 would have been a huge economic boom. It was a disaster. As the tax cuts during Reagan were.

Facts have a liberal bias.

Your version of facts is funny as you take a single point and twist whatever argument you want out of it.

Are we now denying that businesses create jobs? Or tax increases help create jobs (non government version)?

Lets not kid ourselves into why teachers unions heavily favor Democrats, the simple selling off of our education system for votes.

And acting as if Democrats and unions have real negotiations is laughable. Sadly GOP pols have gotten brow beaten for years into concessions for teachers unions. You know the mock outrage "the poor kids!" bs.

The idea that teachers unions are trying to make the education of children a priority is a sad joke as many districts are forced to cut program for the students to ensure that they can pay for lavish benefits negotiated by unions. Such as in NY a public school teacher only has to work 120 of 160 days. What other job do you work 10 months of the year, no weekends and get paid full time to work 75% of the schedule? If a student took as many days off as teachers are allowed they would be considered a truant.

[horseofcourse]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Your version of facts is funny as you take a single point and twist whatever argument you want out of it.

Are we now denying that businesses create jobs? Or tax increases help create jobs (non government version)?

Lets not kid ourselves into why teachers unions heavily favor Democrats, the simple selling off of our education system for votes.

And acting as if Democrats and unions have real negotiations is laughable. Sadly GOP pols have gotten brow beaten for years into concessions for teachers unions. You know the mock outrage "the poor kids!" bs.

The idea that teachers unions are trying to make the education of children a priority is a sad joke as many districts are forced to cut program for the students to ensure that they can pay for lavish benefits negotiated by unions. Such as in NY a public school teacher only has to work 120 of 160 days. What other job do you work 10 months of the year, no weekends and get paid full time to work 75% of the schedule? If a student took as many days off as teachers are allowed they would be considered a truant.

this is shocking to me. I grew up the child of teachers and they never were close to being allowed to take 40 personal days in a year. That simply didn't exist as an option and teacher unions existed in Ohio. They received no lavish benefits ever. My father did eventually go into administration which I guess is an evil unto itself which I am unaware of too much. In those positions he worked 12 months a year non-stop with very little vacation at all. He did have the luxury of dying quite young, so unfortunately didn't get to reap the benefits of all those other "lavish benefits" of which you speak and I as a child of public educators have no clue as to what you are talking about. I am glad to know that my parents are part of a group largely responsible for the decline of America. I take pride in that.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by horseofcourse

this is shocking to me. I grew up the child of teachers and they never were close to being allowed to take 40 personal days in a year. That simply didn't exist as an option and teacher unions existed in Ohio. They received no lavish benefits ever. My father did eventually go into administration which I guess is an evil unto itself which I am unaware of too much. In those positions he worked 12 months a year non-stop with very little vacation at all. He did have the luxury of dying quite young, so unfortunately didn't get to reap the benefits of all those other "lavish benefits" of which you speak and I as a child of public educators have no clue as to what you are talking about. I am glad to know that my parents are part of a group largely responsible for the decline of America. I take pride in that.

I guess they should have moved to NY

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by horseofcourse

this is shocking to me. I grew up the child of teachers and they never were close to being allowed to take 40 personal days in a year. That simply didn't exist as an option and teacher unions existed in Ohio. They received no lavish benefits ever. My father did eventually go into administration which I guess is an evil unto itself which I am unaware of too much. In those positions he worked 12 months a year non-stop with very little vacation at all. He did have the luxury of dying quite young, so unfortunately didn't get to reap the benefits of all those other "lavish benefits" of which you speak and I as a child of public educators have no clue as to what you are talking about. I am glad to know that my parents are part of a group largely responsible for the decline of America. I take pride in that.

yeah, my mom is a teacher, and she has good health insurance. but she surely never takes 40 days off of work maybe 4 total, but not 40. sure she has good insurance, but she deserves every dime she gets, in salary and benefits.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Your version of facts is funny as you take a single point and twist whatever argument you want out of it.

LOL - My only "point" is that your blatant blaming of unions for everything bad doesn't stand up to scrutiny.

It's just the current Republican political fad, so they have someone to blame (you know, teachers, firemen and policemen have ruined this country, right?) so they can have someone pay for financing more of their tax cuts to business.

For example, in Wisconsin, Gov. Scott Walker said the unions needed to make sacrifices to help balance the budget. The unions immediately agreed to those sacrifices. The unions proactively helped balance the budget.

Walker busted the unions anyway. It's all about creating false blame and hate. Not reality.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Riot

LOL - My only "point" is that your blatant blaming of unions for everything bad doesn't stand up to scrutiny.

It's just the current Republican political fad, so they have someone to blame (you know, teachers, firemen and policemen have ruined this country, right?) so they can have someone pay for financing more of their tax cuts to business.

For example, in Wisconsin, Gov. Scott Walker said the unions needed to make sacrifices to help balance the budget. The unions immediately agreed to those sacrifices. The unions proactively helped balance the budget.

Walker busted the unions anyway. It's all about creating false blame and hate. Not reality.

Unions have always been SO willing to sacrifice for the common good. You arent running for political office so why not acknowledge that there is a massive difference between the individuals that belong to a union (most of the time have no choice in the matter) and the union itself.

Again acting as if unions havent abused their position and become something that they weren't intended to when created is myopic or just wrong.