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  #241  
Old 02-28-2012, 03:36 PM
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wiphan wiphan is offline
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Originally Posted by Riot View Post
Well, no Stop saying that when it can't be proven. It's an absurd and completely unproven contention.

If signatures are fraudulent, Walker simply has to submit which ones are fraud to have them removed. He's not. Why? They are not fraudulent.

Walker isn't contesting the signatures, because they are not fraud, and he knows it.

Walker tried to legally force the GAB to check signatures, and the court agreed. That's why they are being entered by GAB into a cross-referenced database, and checked, at huge expense.

Walker tried to allow outside people to "check signatures", and the courts told him to stick it.

Now Walker is whining there isn't enough time for him to check signatures. What nonsense. The people submitting the signatures already crosschecked them, and in half the time Walker claims he needs.

Outside groups sending postcards to the wrong person or wrong addresses, then claiming "fraud" when the postcard is returned to them, is laughable.
you need help. Walker is not challenging signatures because there most likely ARE enough valid signatures to support the recall election. You of course missed the point AGAIN!

IF YOU CLAIM you have 1 million plus signatures and you only have around 800k then you are lying to the public and the media. There are fraudlent, duplicate, illegal signatures on the recall petitions. You know it and there is proof of a lot of this out there for you to see for yourself. Is there enough invalid, illegal signatures that the GAB would actually throw out the recall most likely NO. Democrats better hope they don't lose the recall election because if Walker wins again they are done! Fortunately voters are going to be disenfranchised in the recall election and actually have to show a photo ID to vote so Walker already has an advantage
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  #242  
Old 02-28-2012, 03:43 PM
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Originally Posted by wiphan View Post
you need help. Walker is not challenging signatures because there most likely ARE enough valid signatures to support the recall election. You of course missed the point AGAIN!
And you miss the point, that your claims of fraud regarding up to half the signatures in excess of what are needed is simply howling in the wind, unproven allegation.

Quote:
here are fraudlent, duplicate, illegal signatures on the recall petitions. You know it and there is proof of a lot of this out there for you to see for yourself.
Nonsense. I know there is NOT massive fraud on those petitions. I know that those very signatures are public, have been for two months now, and if there WERE so many "fraudulent, duplicate, illegal" signature, the percentage, and the actual signatures, would be listed by Walker and minions.

Even if the percentage were only 5%, or the 18% normally expected in any recall election, Walker and minions would factually list what they have found: that 5%, 10%, or even 20% of the signatures have been found fraudulent. Even if it's not enough to halt the recall election.

It's not there. They are not listing it, because it's not there, except in the internet conspiracy theories the Walker minions are desperately hanging on to. So stop pretending it is.

Those signatures were already triple checked before submission. At best, the error rate would be 2-5%. Walker knows that.

So you and the other angry Walker supporters pretending that up to 50% are fraud is simply ridiculous and without fact. But it makes a good victim story. For Walker to prove that only less than 5% of the signatures are (not fraud, but disallowable) ruins that story. That's why he's not done it.

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Fortunately voters are going to be disenfranchised in the recall election and actually have to show a photo ID to vote so Walker already has an advantage
Wow. You are not even saying that as a joke, are you?
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  #243  
Old 02-28-2012, 03:51 PM
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And you miss the point, that your claims of fraud regarding up to half the signatures in excess of what are needed is simply howling in the wind, unproven allegation.



Nonsense. I know that those very signatures are public, have been for two months now, and if there WERE so many "fraudulent, duplicate, illegal" signature, the percentage, and the actual signatures, would be listed by Walker and minions.

Even if the percentage were only 5%, or the 18% normally expected in any recall election, Walker and minions would factually list what they have found: that 5%, 10%, or even 20% of the signatures have been found fraudulent. Even if it's not enough to halt the recall election.

It's not there. They are not listing it, because it's not there, except in the internet conspiracy theories the Walker minions are desperately hanging on to. So stop pretending it is.

Those signatures were already triple checked before submission. At best, the error rate would be 2-5%. Walker knows that.



Wow. You are not even saying that as a joke, are you?
If the signatures were triple checked before submission how come they can't actually count how many signatures were actually submitted? Were a million signatures submitted? or was it slightly less (20%) than 1 million?
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  #244  
Old 02-28-2012, 03:53 PM
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If the signatures were triple checked before submission how come they can't actually count how many signatures were actually submitted?
That's not true

Do you just pull this made-up stuff out of thin air?
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  #245  
Old 02-28-2012, 03:55 PM
Antitrust32 Antitrust32 is offline
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wiphan,

it's pointless to keep trying...
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Can I start just making stuff up out of thin air, too?
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  #246  
Old 02-28-2012, 03:56 PM
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wiphan,

it's pointless to keep trying...
That's because Wiphan is full of nonsense. It's ridiculous, and hilarious. The number of straw men alone sets a new record.

Face it: the signatures are publicly available on the internet. If any of the nonsense about allegations of massive "fraud" the Walker minions were saying was true, it would be easily provable by them.

Yet ... they keep saying it, without proving it.

And when you ask them to prove it, they change the subject.

We're waiting, and I'm sure we'll keep waiting until after Walker is recalled. And after the recall election, they will still be complaining of "massive fraud", because it makes them feel better than realizing the person they voted for is a failure who is undergoing a historic recall.
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  #247  
Old 02-28-2012, 04:00 PM
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That's not true

Do you just pull this made-up stuff out of thin air?
So how about if there are 1 million plus signatures submitted I will not post in politics for 30 days. If there are less than 1 million signatures you can't post in politics for 30 days. Deal? The number of signatures to be determined by the GAB
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  #248  
Old 02-28-2012, 04:02 PM
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So how about if there are 1 million plus signatures submitted I will not post in politics for 30 days. If there are less than 1 million signatures you can't post in politics for 30 days. Deal? The number of signatures to be determined by the GAB
Your allegation was that they can't even count the actual number of signatures submitted.

You said, "If the signatures were triple checked before submission how come they can't actually count how many signatures were actually submitted?"

I said, "That's not true".

Now, above, you are changing your mind, you say there is an actual number? And you know what that number is?

Yes, there is an actual number. It has been published. Thanks for admitting that And thanks for admitting that your statement, " ... they can't actually count how many signatures were actually submitted" was completely false, and you apparently knew it.

Really, Wiphan .... stick to the truth in defending your Governor.
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  #249  
Old 02-28-2012, 04:03 PM
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I nominate Clyde to keep score on the 30 days...whoever is in the penalty box...
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  #250  
Old 02-28-2012, 04:06 PM
Antitrust32 Antitrust32 is offline
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Originally Posted by Riot View Post
That's because Wiphan is full of nonsense. It's ridiculous, and hilarious. The number of straw men alone sets a new record.

Face it: the signatures are publicly available on the internet. If any of the nonsense about allegations of massive "fraud" the Walker minions were saying was true, it would be easily provable by them.

Yet ... they keep saying it, without proving it.

And when you ask them to prove it, they change the subject.

We're waiting, and I'm sure we'll keep waiting until after Walker is recalled. And after the recall election, they will still be complaining of "massive fraud", because it makes them feel better than realizing the person they voted for is a failure who is undergoing a historic recall.
I've read the back and forth and it's you that seems to be pulling **** from left field.

wiphan is saying that there are 800k signatures, not 1 million. 200k is a massive difference and if correct, its manipulative for the media to say there are 1 million signatures.

That's what he's been saying. I have no idea what you have been going on and on about.
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Can I start just making stuff up out of thin air, too?
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  #251  
Old 02-28-2012, 04:08 PM
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Originally Posted by bigrun View Post
I nominate Clyde to keep score on the 30 days...whoever is in the penalty box...
Can I start just making stuff up out of thin air, too?
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  #252  
Old 02-28-2012, 04:11 PM
Antitrust32 Antitrust32 is offline
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Originally Posted by Riot View Post
Can I start just making stuff up out of thin air, too?
this quote is like being handed something on a silver platter!!!

Thanks Riot!
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  #253  
Old 02-28-2012, 04:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Antitrust32 View Post
I've read the back and forth and it's you that seems to be pulling **** from left field.

wiphan is saying that there are 800k signatures, not 1 million. 200k is a massive difference and if correct, its manipulative for the media to say there are 1 million signatures.

That's what he's been saying. I have no idea what you have been going on and on about.
No, Wiphan is making allegations of massive fraud in the signature collection process, an allegation that he has so far has completely failed to prove.

You're off on one of the straw man tangents he's using to distract from that.

Tell us, Wiphan: out of all the signatures collected for Walker, what is the actual number of signatures collected, and what is the actual number of signatures that have been disallowed as invalid? Please list both "Walker" numbers, and GAB numbers.

Because your whole argument is that there is a huge difference between those two numbers. So tell us what those numbers are. Or stop making unproven allegations of "massive fraud".

(you call any false signature "fraud", which is baloney. Signatures can be disallowed for not having an address, etc. which means there is a greater chance, over just "fraud", to disallow signatures)
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  #254  
Old 02-28-2012, 04:14 PM
Antitrust32 Antitrust32 is offline
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from what I gather.. it seems like wiphan readily admits there are enough signatures to force a recall.

What he does not believe... is that there are 1 million valid signatures.

I think its simple enough to understand what he's been saying and that there is no straw, tin, or lions involved.
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Can I start just making stuff up out of thin air, too?
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  #255  
Old 02-28-2012, 04:18 PM
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from what I gather.. it seems like wiphan readily admits there are enough signatures to force a recall.
That's not the point, and nobody has disputed that. Wiphan is making wild allegations that - over and above the valid signatures collected for recall - that leaves, and there actually are, up to a half-million of possible fraudulent signatures.

So Wiphan - any proof of that? At all?
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  #256  
Old 02-28-2012, 04:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Antitrust32 View Post
from what I gather.. it seems like wiphan readily admits there are enough signatures to force a recall.

What he does not believe... is that there are 1 million valid signatures.

I think its simple enough to understand what he's been saying.
Thanks for helping to clarify this for Riot.

I think the recall will be good. If Walker wins Again then WI will move forward and we can finally be done with all of this bs. If Walker loses then the democrats will have to take responsibility for any actions they take.
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  #257  
Old 02-28-2012, 04:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Riot View Post
That's not the point, and nobody has disputed that. Wiphan is making wild allegations that there are up to a half-million of possible fraudulent signatures.

So Wiphan - any proof of that? At all?
who is making things up out of thin air. I don't even know how to respond to your above comments. Please find where I said 500,000 + signatures are fraudlent
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  #258  
Old 02-28-2012, 04:22 PM
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Thanks for helping to clarify this for Riot.
But that's not what you said. You said there is massive fraud among those signatures. Nobody is saying there are not enough valid signatures remaining to force a recall.

So tell us: out of all the signatures collected for Walker, what is the actual number of signatures collected, and what is the actual number of signatures that have been disallowed as invalid?

Please list both "Walker" numbers (how many they have counted as "fraudulent"), and GAB numbers of disallowed signatures.

Because your whole argument is that there is a huge difference between those two numbers. And you know there is massive fraud. That means you have actual numbers. So tell us what those numbers are. Or stop making unproven allegations of "massive fraud".
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  #259  
Old 02-28-2012, 04:30 PM
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who is making things up out of thin air. I don't even know how to respond to your above comments. Please find where I said 500,000 + signatures are fraudlent
Dear god, that's not what I wrote, is it? Try re-reading that.

Let's try again, without your two pages of straw men and subject changes:

You said: "It isn't 1 million signatures and a lot of there is some fraud."

So put up or shut up: what are those numbers? How many signatures were collected? What percentage have been found to be fraud?

For two pages, I've been asking you to support your allegation, and you've made many excuses for not having to do so, and changed the subject many times.

Just give us the numbers that support your allegation, please. Or stop making it.
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  #260  
Old 02-28-2012, 04:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Riot View Post
But that's not what you said. You said there is massive fraud among those signatures. Nobody is saying there are not enough valid signatures remaining to force a recall.

So tell us: out of all the signatures collected for Walker, what is the actual number of signatures collected, and what is the actual number of signatures that have been disallowed as invalid?

Please list both "Walker" numbers (how many they have counted as "fraudulent"), and GAB numbers of disallowed signatures.

Because your whole argument is that there is a huge difference between those two numbers. And you know there is massive fraud. That means you have actual numbers. So tell us what those numbers are. Or stop making unproven allegations of "massive fraud".
Again you missed my point. I do not know how many actual signatures were really submitted. I am willing to wager it is less than 1 million and closer to 800k. That is what I said.

As far as fraud- there are many duplicate signatures (check the forms yourself), illegible, out of state, fraudlent (one family member signing for the entire household) but there are not nearly enough to avoid the recall. For you when I said some fraud that became 500k+ signatures. I guess I understand your accounting system.
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