|
|
 |
|
|
|
#1
07-13-2010, 12:52 PM
|
||||
|
||||
So, what's your point? Dwight Gooden was one of the two or three best pitchers in baseball for a similar period. Does he deserve to be in the HOF?
Name the one modern pitcher currently enshrined in Cooperstown who had a worse career ERA+ than Catfish Hunter.
__________________
The world's foremost expert on virtually everything on the Redskins 2010 season: "Im going to go out on a limb here. I say they make the playoffs." 
|
|
#2
07-13-2010, 12:56 PM
|
||||
|
||||
|
I can think of 20 players - pitchers and position players - off the top of my head more deserving of Hall of Fame enshrinement than Catfish Hunter. Players with good careers, not a couple good seasons. Hell, Roy Halladay has been a better pitcher for a longer period of time than Catfish Hunter was, and that's just one player currently playing who's probably more deserving of a plaque in Cooperstown than Jim Hunter.
__________________
The world's foremost expert on virtually everything on the Redskins 2010 season: "Im going to go out on a limb here. I say they make the playoffs."
|
|
#3
07-13-2010, 01:18 PM
|
||||
|
||||
|
Quote:
Hunter was a big league regular at 19 and a great deal of his career numbers were earned at an age before most pitchers even make their big league debuts. Hunter didnt have a "few good seasons", he had great ones. Again no one is saying that he will make any all-time teams but he is absolutly Hall of fame worthy. Saying that a player is "more worthy" is not really pertinent. You either meet the standard or you dont. He does.
|
|
#4
07-13-2010, 01:27 PM
|
||||
|
||||
|
Fact: Catfish Hunter played on a bunch of good teams, won some World Series, and didn't pitch a game past the age of 33. His best season - either '73 or '75, take your pick - is inferior to all but two of Halladay's total seasons since he became a full-time starter in 2002. I don't think Roy Halladay is necessarily a Hall of Famer, but if his career ended today, I think most knowledgeable baseball minds would say he was a better pitcher than Catfish Hunter.
Catfish Hunter is the worst pitcher currently in the Hall of Fame. His election to the Hall of Fame literally lowered the standard to the point where he is the minimum standard for which all other borderline pitchers are judged. His career ERA when compared to the average ERA during the seasons he pitched is eclipsed by only Rube Marquard in terms of futility by pitchers who are members of the Hall of Fame as of 2010. There is literally not a statistic on the wide spectrum of baseball numbers that can justify his inclusion in the National Baseball Hall of Fame. Selectively remembering a couple fine seasons he had in the early 70's isn't going to change that. Oh, and Phil Rizzuto is among the worst modern position player in the Hall of Fame, so at least the Yankees are covering all the bases in that respect.
__________________
The world's foremost expert on virtually everything on the Redskins 2010 season: "Im going to go out on a limb here. I say they make the playoffs."
|
|
#5
07-13-2010, 01:44 PM
|
||||
|
||||
|
Quote:
And Phil Rizzuto is not nearly the worst position player in the hall of fame. Ray Schalk, Johnny Evers, Joe Tinker and Bill Mazeroski, Rick Ferrell and Roger Breshanhan are all weaker candidates than the Scooter who besides his playing career did announce games for 40 years. The worst HoF selection isn't even a player but how is Bowie Kuhn in?
|
|
#6
07-13-2010, 01:31 PM
|
||||
|
||||
|
Catfish Hunters career numbers
15 seasons 224-166 3.26 era 3449 IP 2958 hits 181 CG 42 shut outs 2012 K's 1.134 WHIP 8 time allstar 1 cy young (3 times in top 4) led league in wins 2x (top 10-7x) led league in era (top 3-3x) led league in CG (top 10-7x) playoff record 9-6 with 3.26 era
|
|
#7
07-13-2010, 01:38 PM
|
||||
|
||||
|
ERA+ of 104, as in his career ERA was barely above league average. A pock on the HOF admission process. Only Jim Rice being admitted can compare to Hunter's mediocre resume.
__________________
The world's foremost expert on virtually everything on the Redskins 2010 season: "Im going to go out on a limb here. I say they make the playoffs."
|
|
#8
07-13-2010, 01:45 PM
|
||||
|
||||
|
Cannon, have you ever studied the wins above replacement metric? It is supposed to very roughly determine a value of a particular player/pitcher in relation to a "replacement," i.e., a guy off the scrap heap making a spot start or something of the like. Care to know where Catfish Hunter ranks all time among pitchers in the WAR logic?
__________________
The world's foremost expert on virtually everything on the Redskins 2010 season: "Im going to go out on a limb here. I say they make the playoffs."
|
|
#9
07-13-2010, 01:52 PM
|
||||
|
||||
|
Quote:
|
|
#10
07-13-2010, 01:51 PM
|
||||
|
||||
|
Quote:
Thats all you can come up with? What about the fact that his 1st 2 seasons when he was a 19 and 20 year old pitching for a terrible team came during the period before the mound was lowered which negatively effects his overall ERA+? His 21 through 30 years which is what he was elected based on his ERA+ was 114. Those 10 years were outstanding. He isnt even the worst A's pitcher elected. You would have a much better case against Rollie Fingers.
|
|
#11
07-13-2010, 01:06 PM
|
||||
|
||||
|
Quote:
Dwight Gooden was a better pitcher at his best than any of those other pitchers, but his peak came during the 1st years of his career and his demise was self-induced. If he had 2 or 3 more seasons like his first 5 he too would have been in the HoF. Hunter's weakness was the HR as he gave up a lot because he wasnt a power pitcher and didnt strikeout a lot of guys. But the idea that he somehow is much worse than the other guys listed is without merit.
|
Hybrid Mode
