NYTHA Lasix Primer & Letter to NYS RWB

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by Riot

Yes, indeed. You are just cutting and pasting things with words in it. Because, if you had actually read and understoodthe study you are quoting, you'll see the conclusions are far different than the little part you cut and paste

For example, you say this:

Duck.

Again, refute the statement: "...we believe our results present clear and unequivocal evidence of an association between use of furosemide and superior performance in Thoroughbred racehorses."

No. The reason that laboratory values are set where they are because of simple and usual statistical mathematical distribution. Has nothing at all to do with "lasix altering the acid-base balance". Sorry. BTW - can you name 5 other things that affect TCO2 values? Because you've just put all your eggs in one basket of blame - and you're wrong. Not surprising, considering you don't really know anything about the scope of what you are talking about, and you just jumped to a false conclusion.

Dive.

You are completely trying to steer away from what was said. There are two separate threshold levels for total carbon dioxide used in New York to identify "milkshaked" horses, not a range. One for horses not receiving lasix. One for horses receiving lasix. The latter is allowed a higher threshold (ie more total carbon dioxide ergo more bicarbonate). Why is that?

You trying to cover up this fact with a blanket of statistical nonsense is pathetic beyond belief.

As to "other things" that affect total CO2 values, I never said lasix was the only thing that did. Why would I? The point of testing for total CO2 is to discover horses that have been "milkshaked", not administered lasix.

When it comes to the scientific actions of furosemide, you're a bloviating ignoramus.

How do you know? I'll I ever said was that furosemide caused a 3% drop in body weight and that it had an alkalinizing effect. Are these untrue? Simply refute them without evasion and maybe we can get down to business.

Why don't you support your own crazy claim that it does? You made a weird claim, completely outside of known medical knowledge and experience, prove it.

Duck and dive. I made a weird claim? Where? By quoting a recognized (by the magical, all-knowing veterinary community) authority on lasix?

The onus is on you. This is not hot potato.

Cutting and pasting random quotes, while completely ignoring the basic physiology and misunderstanding what you are reading, is hilarious and sad. Start with chloride and the ascending loop of Henle.

Kicking and scratching from a scared creature trapped in a corner.

You see, you actually have to understand what you are going on about. Just googling and posting doesn't make you a lasix expert. Believe me - I am a lasix expert, and you've repeatedly demonstrated you are clueless.

If you're an expert, then why are you having trouble refuting what other experts have observed in published, peer-reviewed, scientific papers?

Please - stick to gambling. Leave medicine and veterinary advice to the experts. You are free to hold the completely opposite opinion than the entire medical veterinary medical community on this subject, but having you argue basic physiology and pharmacology from a level of zero obvious knowledge - by cutting and pasting - is simply uncomfortable to watch.

Do you think anyone reading this thread is actually buying into your condescending, weak-willed bullying?

Obviously your bark is loud. Now put up and fucl<ing bite already.

But ... you are just repeating what some in this sport are doing, falsifying and ignoring all the relevant information, in an effort to further their own preconceived agenda. But when they step into our realm, the medical realm, and really start with the lies, we're calling bull.sh.i.at. on that stuff.

That's funny. Because I've only quoted veterinarians with regards to lasix.

The funny thing is that on the equine veterinarian private blogs, we are talking about this, too. Very different discussion, as you might guess.

To hear you tell it, it must be a very one-sided debate about the Cassandra Complex.

Is Madeleine Stowe leading the discussion?