NYTHA Lasix Primer & Letter to NYS RWB

[Riot]

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

The same person that finally proved that Lasix was effective under racing conditions also did a study that concluded that Lasix was a performance enhancer. Furthermore, lasix has other effects aside from reducing the severity of bleeding, namely causing a ~3% decrease in body weight (ie upwards to 30lbs) and changing the acid-base balance of the blood (ie the same principle behind "milkshaking" albeit at a less dramatic level). Those potential factors are still on the table, so saying that horses receiving lasix run better simply because they don't bleed is not necessarily accurate.

Well, Rollo learns how to google. Good for you! Please, quote the exact study you are referring to that "lasix is a performance enhancer". I rather know what is being referred to, and I'd like to correct your misunderstanding.

Regarding the weight loss. No, it usually is not upwards of 30 pounds, and please, don't hesitate to quote the specific two studies that examined this very question: does weight loss contribute to increased performance with lasix? Because I guarantee you probably won't like the results.

No, lasix does NOT change the acid-base balance of the blood. Anybody who knows how this loop diuretic works knows that. If that were true, every horse given lasix would have a TCO2 positive.

Stick to being opinionated about racing, Rollo, but as an expert on lasix you're passing on half-baked information that has already, repeatedly, been "debunked".

I'm not talking about you specifically here, Rollo, but I'm tired of the outright medical lies being promulgated over the years by proponents of banning lasix. These lies and their position regarding what lasix does to the horse are at 100% odds with the veterinary and scientific community regarding what lasix does, and it sure as hell is not because they are better educated in veterinary medicine and science. They are ignorant old men, too foolish and set in their ways to leave their "knowledge" from the 1970's behind them. They are a danger to the health and welfare of the race horse.

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by Riot

Well, Rollo learns how to google. Good for you! Please, quote the exact study you are referring to that "lasix is a performance enhancer". I rather know what is being referred to, and I'd like to correct your misunderstanding.

From the study you rather know...

Because of the large study population and resulting statistical power,...we believe our results present clear and unequivocal evidence of an association between use of furosemide and superior performance in Thoroughbred racehorses.

Possible explanations for the association between use of furosemide and superior performance include reduction in severity of EIPH, reduction in body weight, induction of metabolic alkalosis, bronchiodilation, and other mechanisms.

Regarding the weight loss. No, it usually is not upwards of 30 pounds, and please, don't hesitate to quote the specific two studies that examined this very question: does weight loss contribute to increased performance with lasix? Because I guarantee you probably won't like the results.

0.03 x 500kg x 2.2lbs/kg = 33lbs.

Same study:

Another explanation for a performance-enhancing of furosemide is the acute reduction in body weight that occurs after furosemide administration. Intravenous administration of furosemide has been shown to induce a 2% to 4% in body weight within 4 hours. (4 citations noted)

No, lasix does NOT change the acid-base balance of the blood. Anybody who knows how this loop diuretic works knows that.

Why don't you just go ahead and explain it then? Explain how a drug that inhibits reabsorption of ions important in acid-base balance doesn't affect acid-base balance. Never mind the multiple studies that note an alkalosis in exercising horses following lasix administration.

If that were true, every horse given lasix would have a TCO2 positive.

Why would every horse have a TCO2 positive? The TCO2 threshold used for detecting "milkshaking" is higher than the level signifying alkalosis.

Stick to being opinionated about racing, Rollo, but as an expert on lasix you're passing on half-baked information that has already, repeatedly, been "debunked".

Hey, I'm just asking questions for the most part, trying to obtain some consistency and impartiality to the proceedings. Why has the use of lasix as a treatment for EIPH remained controversial for all these years? Why has there been hundreds of studies trying to validate its efficacy if it's effects were so cut-and-dry from the outset?