NYTHA Lasix Primer & Letter to NYS RWB

[Riot]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

Unless, of course, you include the very next sentence I wrote.

I read it. You want to ban a drug that clearly helps race horses. And you're willing to pretend it does not help them, in the face of overwhelming evidence it does.

If we are going to help race horses, banning a drug that is proven to help them is moronic beyond belief. Period.

You and the "ban lasix" crowd have zero factual support for the false contentions that have been made about lasix, in support of the desire for a ban. This is dangerous to the sport. To it's very existence. The lying, the false contentions, the ignoring of real drug problems. Unbelievable.

We. Know. Better. The public can read Joe Drape, but the public can also learn better, as the information is right there at their fingertips. It can't be covered up, or hidden, or bullied into the background.

[RolloTomasi]

Does anyone know why administering sodium bicarbonate via nasogastric tube within 24 hours of a race is illegal?

[Riot]

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

Does anyone know why administering sodium bicarbonate via nasogastric tube within 24 hours of a race is illegal?

Yes.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

Does anyone know why administering sodium bicarbonate via nasogastric tube within 24 hours of a race is illegal?

Because you arent allowed in most states to give anything via tube or needle including electrolytes within 24 hours except lasix.

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Because you arent allowed in most states to give anything via tube or needle including electrolytes within 24 hours except lasix.

I presume it's because there are negative implications associated with someone administering any substance to a horse on raceday.

Is sodium bicarbonate innocuous and/or beneficial to an athlete?

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

I presume it's because there are negative implications associated with someone administering any substance to a horse on raceday.

Is sodium bicarbonate innocuous and/or beneficial to an athlete?

I would guess your presumption is correct not to mention makes it easier to monitor because it would be pretty hard to say you were using a tube to give lasix.

It wasnt that long ago that you could "legally" milkshake horses on raceday. Some horses seemed to run better with them, some ran worse, most ran about as the same as you would think. Of course there are a lot of other factors that lead to a positive or negative performance so it isnt easy to say with certainty.

I have no idea if it would help a human though I suppose the delevery system would need to be different

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Of course there are a lot of other factors that lead to a positive or negative performance so it isnt easy to say with certainty.

This is also true when discussing the significance of bleeding in racehorses as it pertains to actual performance. How much is a horse's performance actually affected by bleeding at grades below the most severe?

It goes back to what cmorioles was saying about the vast majority of racehorses receiving lasix on raceday.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

How much is a horse's performance actually affected by bleeding at grades below the most severe?

Tell us. The proper way to formulate that hypothesis would be that 100% of horses are negatively affected. Prove that hypothesis wrong.

We do not want to assume, or guess, do we? Let's base our opinions on the facts - right?

[cmorioles]

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

This is also true when discussing the significance of bleeding in racehorses as it pertains to actual performance. How much is a horse's performance actually affected by bleeding at grades below the most severe?

It goes back to what cmorioles was saying about the vast majority of racehorses receiving lasix on raceday.

I've always wondered if you need a scope to find bleeding, how bad is it really? Does it affect performance? How do we know? Who can give an accurate measurement?

[cmorioles]

Originally Posted by Riot

I read it. You want to ban a drug that clearly helps race horses. And you're willing to pretend it does not help them, in the face of overwhelming evidence it does.

If we are going to help race horses, banning a drug that is proven to help them is moronic beyond belief. Period.

You and the "ban lasix" crowd have zero factual support for the false contentions that have been made about lasix, in support of the desire for a ban. This is dangerous to the sport. To it's very existence. The lying, the false contentions, the ignoring of real drug problems. Unbelievable.

We. Know. Better. The public can read Joe Drape, but the public can also learn better, as the information is right there at their fingertips. It can't be covered up, or hidden, or bullied into the background.

I don't think there is anything wrong with wanting a drug free sport. Horsemen took advantage of Lasix rules to the point the drug is overused, now they will have to suffer the consequences. If horses truly need drugs to race, we probably shouldn't have horse racing. Are there worse problems in racing? Of course there are. I don't have all the answers. But only in racing would drugging an animal every time it competes be passed off as "caring about horses".

I'm out.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

I don't think there is anything wrong with wanting a drug free sport.

Therapeutic drugs that help horses? Or illegal drugs that harm horses? There's a big difference. I completely agree with the second, not the first.

Horsemen took advantage of Lasix rules to the point the drug is overused,

You continue to mistake your personal opinion for some type of "fact".

Please. I wish the anti-lasix crowd would have the guts to stand up and just say the only thing they can: "I know lasix helps horses, but the perception of lay people with no vested interest in the sport is more important to me than our horses health and what veterinarians and scientists tell us is best for the horses health."

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

I don't think there is anything wrong with wanting a drug free sport. Horsemen took advantage of Lasix rules to the point the drug is overused, now they will have to suffer the consequences. If horses truly need drugs to race, we probably shouldn't have horse racing. Are there worse problems in racing? Of course there are. I don't have all the answers. But only in racing would drugging an animal every time it competes be passed off as "caring about horses".

I'm out.

I'm sorry but i cant understand how you can say you are neutral on the topic yet make posts like this. I also cant believe you drug yourself everyday and yet can pass judgement on those wishing to protect thier horses from a bleeding episode.

[cmorioles]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

I'm sorry but i cant understand how you can say you are neutral on the topic yet make posts like this. I also cant believe you drug yourself everyday and yet can pass judgement on those wishing to protect thier horses from a bleeding episode.

Well, for one, I stopped drugging myself as soon as humanly possible. Second, I wasn't drugging myself so I could compete in a sport. I was doing it so I could walk. I have no idea how these are remotely related.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

Well, for one, I stopped drugging myself as soon as humanly possible. Second, I wasn't drugging myself so I could compete in a sport. I was doing it so I could walk. I have no idea how these are remotely related.

To make a point. You needed drugs to treat a specific medical issue. This doesnt make you a druggie, a bad guy or a cheater. Horses would probably feel the same way about bleeding. Average horse races 6 times a year. I would say 6 shots a year isnt exactly junkie material.