Roethlisberger

[hi_im_god]

Originally Posted by docicu3

At the risk of touching off a political nuclear explosion it should be said nonetheless that there is something wrong about this concept of a second layer of double jeopardy justice fueled and dictated by an employer who sanctions when the police have walked away from prosecution of Ben's behavior never mind enforcement.

Obviously I do not know what Ben has done, with whom and how much of it qualifies as decadent and/or immoral. If I had better access to exactly what went on perhaps I would feel differently but I have a problem when a punishment is levied when our judicial system did not feel that the standard for punishment had been clearly violated enough for even a TRIAL, never mind a finding reached that deems punishment appropriate for discussion.



I actually wish Ben would walk away and retire immediately and let the Steelers and the Commish scramble to explain how this turned into a lifetime vacation from the game and theft from Steeler fans of a pretty decent QB.

the double jeopardy model doesn't really fit here. and if it did, this would be more like triple jeopardy since the state declined to criminally prosecute him and all this followed.

think of it this way. if a doctor does something that jeopardizes their medical license, does the employer have no recourse outside whatever the state licensing board decides is appropriate?

do they have to keep employing that person?

[Rudeboyelvis]

Originally Posted by 3kings

Doc,
Living in Pittsburgh and being a season ticket holder I have followed this story pretty closely, I disagree. Even though there was not enough evidence to convict him of a crime(this time) it does not mean his behavior would or should be tolerated by any employer. There are at least 3-4 other indiscretions that have been substantiated around town that seem to be within his realm of behavioral possibilities. When your alleged best pick-up move is to unzip your pants, expose yourself and say "do whatever you want", you are not representing your employer very well. There is a consistent pattern of sub-human behavior which casts your business in a bad way you have to do something.
I also wish he would walk away from the Steelers and retire. IMO if he walked away or was not a pro athlete he would already be in jail or beaten to a pulp. Either way he would not be a exposing himself or forcing himself on star struck college co-eds.

Tom - if not for the "modern" media, Babe Ruth would have been canonized.... I'm in no way dismissing his actions, he's a first class azshole, and an absolute piece of sh1t...
The sad reality is that Pittsburgh has no answer without him, and at the end of the day, that's all they look at.... - Fortunately they could stick Beetlejuice behind center and still sell out Heinz Field.

[docicu3]

Originally Posted by hi_im_god

the double jeopardy model doesn't really fit here. and if it did, this would be more like triple jeopardy since the state declined to criminally prosecute him and all this followed.

think of it this way. if a doctor does something that jeopardizes their medical license, does the employer have no recourse outside whatever the state licensing board decides is appropriate?

do they have to keep employing that person?

I understand what your saying but in medicine it works the other way. If a doc does something outside of accepted practice patterns, the hospital pulls his privileges which forces the doc to comment on the events when he tries to renew his state license. A complaint filed is processed this way unless there is an immediate danger to the community like a guy who operates and drinks.

Hospitals are given tremendous latitude to police their nurses and docs. Rarely does a hospital face charges about how it disciplines docs and nurses

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by docicu3

I understand what your saying but in medicine it works the other way. If a doc does something outside of accepted practice patterns, the hospital pulls his privileges which forces the doc to comment on the events when he tries to renew his state license. A complaint filed is processed this way unless there is an immediate danger to the community like a guy who operates and drinks.

I know a doctor that was suspended for having an affair with a married patient (also treated spouse). There is nothing "illegal" about that is there?

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by Rudeboyelvis

In a pathetic attempt to rerail this thread - ESPN reporting that Pittsburgh is shopping Big Ben for a top ten pick

If they are serious about trading Ben for a top ten pick, it would be in essence dumping him. I think its more smoke than anything else but I applaud the Steelers for their stance.

A two time super bowl winning QB that is in his prime and is arguably top five in the game (arguably) for one draft pick?

[randallscott35]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

If they are serious about trading Ben for a top ten pick, it would be in essence dumping him. I think its more smoke than anything else but I applaud the Steelers for their stance.

A two time super bowl winning QB that is in his prime and is arguably top five in the game (arguably) for one draft pick?

Why trade for a guy who will be out 6 games?

[randallscott35]

http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com...en-problem/?hp

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by randallscott35

Why trade for a guy who will be out 6 games?

Well, it might just be 4 games. That aside, look at what you are getting in terms of talent. Look at his age. Look at his contract.

He will make 8.05 million in 2010. He will make a little over 11 million from 2011-2014 and will make a little over 12 million in 2015. Where are you going to find a two time super bowl winning QB in his twenties and be able to not only get away with a reasonable yearly salary but also not have to pay a giant signing bonus?

Regardless of how much of a creep i think he is, there is no doubt he can play. Taking away Manning, Brady and Brees, Ben is in the conversation with any other QB in the league and you can still build a team around him.

If you are the Bills or Browns, you wouldn't take him over what else is out there?

[randallscott35]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

Well, it might just be 4 games. That aside, look at what you are getting in terms of talent. Look at his age. Look at his contract.

He will make 8.05 million in 2010. He will make a little over 11 million from 2011-2014 and will make a little over 12 million in 2015. Where are you going to find a two time super bowl winning QB in his twenties and be able to not only get away with a reasonable yearly salary but also not have to pay a giant signing bonus?

Regardless of how much of a creep i think he is, there is no doubt he can play. Taking away Manning, Brady and Brees, Ben is in the conversation with any other QB in the league and you can still build a team around him.

If you are the Bills or Browns, you wouldn't take him over what else is out there?

Baggage. No.

[Nascar1966]

Originally Posted by randallscott35

Why trade for a guy who will be out 6 games?

You have just brought an excellent point. Im thinking if someone trades for him they will more likely make him a fix to a bad quarterback situation. Im sure there might at least four or five teams who need help at quarterback and might be willing to trade for a quarterback who has proven that he knows how to win games. I am well aware there are a few talented quarterbacks in this years draft. Is a team willing to get an unproven quarterback when there is a proven quarterback available? Again I think its disgraceful what Roethlisberger has done. Im sure some teams are willing to take a chance on him. How many chances did Pacman Jones get?

[Rudeboyelvis]

Originally Posted by randallscott35

Why trade for a guy who will be out 6 games?

I can name 6 teams easily, and probably another 10 with some thought... Amazing they wait until 2 days before the draft to announce it - they must have a stake in boosting the draft day ratings

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by randallscott35

Baggage. No.

Well, thats another story. Regardless of how I feel about him, I would take a chance on him if I were a GM in the top ten. He is still young and still has a chance to redeem himself and become a better person.

I think you have a greater risk of Casey Clausen or Sam Bradford ending up being a bum.

[randallscott35]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

Well, thats another story. Regardless of how I feel about him, I would take a chance on him if I were a GM in the top ten. He is still young and still has a chance to redeem himself and become a better person.

I think you have a greater risk of Casey Clausen or Sam Bradford ending up being a bum.

Maybe.

[Rudeboyelvis]

By the way, the Redskins are now officially kicking themselves in the asz.

[Nascar1966]

Originally Posted by Rudeboyelvis

By the way, the Redskins are now officially kicking themselves in the asz.

Throwing money around still hasn't bought Daniel Snyder a Super Bowl win let a Conference Championship. At least George Steinbrenner has some World Series wins.

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by Nascar1966

Throwing money around still hasn't bought Daniel Snyder a Super Bowl win let a Conference Championship. At least George Steinbrenner has some World Series wins.

Yeah, but, George didnt have to deal with a salary cap and revenue sharing either. On top of that, George went almost twenty years between titles and 15 years between playoff appearances while having the highest payroll in the league for much of that time.

Snyder will figure it out. Bringing in Shanahan was a good step.

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by Rudeboyelvis

By the way, the Redskins are now officially kicking themselves in the asz.

Ben would have gotten it worse behind that skins line than he would have in a jailhouse shower.

Still...a mere first round draft pick for roethlisberger? yeah, they are kicking themselves.

[philcski]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

Ben would have gotten it worse behind that skins line than he would have in a jailhouse shower.

Still...a mere first round draft pick for roethlisberger? yeah, they are kicking themselves.

Given what they paid for a guy equally or more talented than Rothlisberger... they aren't kicking themselves at all.

I honestly have never thought Big Ben was anything more than just good though.

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by philcski

Given what they paid for a guy equally or more talented than Rothlisberger... they aren't kicking themselves at all.

I honestly have never thought Big Ben was anything more than just good though.

I like Mcnabb. I always have. But he is getting old and he has taken a lot of hits. He is certainly on the downside of his career.

Benro is in the midst of his prime and he has two skins on the wall.

You can't build around Mcnabb anymore. The window is small. With Roethlisberger, you have plenty of time to grow as a team.

[Rudeboyelvis]

Originally Posted by philcski

Given what they paid for a guy equally or more talented than Rothlisberger... they aren't kicking themselves at all.

I honestly have never thought Big Ben was anything more than just good though.

I'd have to disagree - though last year was a precursor to things to come - now minus Santonio Holmes.
The guy got it done with a suspect line (now exposed) no running game and a decent receiver corps... D kept them in contention ( and you saw what impact the absence of Palamolu had) last season...There is not much left there since the SB.... he'd welcome a change I'm sure.

He is more of a natural fit to the existing Redskins scheme than McNabb is, though as a lifelong Skins guy, I'm not complaining either way