Roethlisberger

[docicu3]

Originally Posted by GBBob

He's got a way to go before he can claim to be like Mike

At the risk of touching off a political nuclear explosion it should be said nonetheless that there is something wrong about this concept of a second layer of double jeopardy justice fueled and dictated by an employer who sanctions when the police have walked away from prosecution of Ben's behavior never mind enforcement.

Obviously I do not know what Ben has done, with whom and how much of it qualifies as decadent and/or immoral. If I had better access to exactly what went on perhaps I would feel differently but I have a problem when a punishment is levied when our judicial system did not feel that the standard for punishment had been clearly violated enough for even a TRIAL, never mind a finding reached that deems punishment appropriate for discussion.



I actually wish Ben would walk away and retire immediately and let the Steelers and the Commish scramble to explain how this turned into a lifetime vacation from the game and theft from Steeler fans of a pretty decent QB.

[Rudeboyelvis]

Originally Posted by docicu3

At the risk of touching off a political nuclear explosion it should be said nonetheless that there is something wrong about this concept of a second layer of double jeopardy justice fueled and dictated by an employer who sanctions when the police have walked away from prosecution of Ben's behavior never mind enforcement.

Obviously I do not know what Ben has done, with whom and how much of it qualifies as decadent and/or immoral. If I had better access to exactly what went on perhaps I would feel differently but I have a problem when a punishment is levied when our judicial system did not feel that the standard for punishment had been clearly violated enough for even a TRIAL, never mind a finding reached that deems punishment appropriate for discussion.



I actually wish Ben would walk away and retire immediately and let the Steelers and the Commish scramble to explain how this turned into a lifetime vacation from the game and theft from Steeler fans of a pretty decent QB.

Redskins fan, Doc?

[Rudeboyelvis]

In a pathetic attempt to rerail this thread - ESPN reporting that Pittsburgh is shopping Big Ben for a top ten pick

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by Rudeboyelvis

In a pathetic attempt to rerail this thread - ESPN reporting that Pittsburgh is shopping Big Ben for a top ten pick

If they are serious about trading Ben for a top ten pick, it would be in essence dumping him. I think its more smoke than anything else but I applaud the Steelers for their stance.

A two time super bowl winning QB that is in his prime and is arguably top five in the game (arguably) for one draft pick?

[randallscott35]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

If they are serious about trading Ben for a top ten pick, it would be in essence dumping him. I think its more smoke than anything else but I applaud the Steelers for their stance.

A two time super bowl winning QB that is in his prime and is arguably top five in the game (arguably) for one draft pick?

Why trade for a guy who will be out 6 games?

[randallscott35]

http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com...en-problem/?hp

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by randallscott35

Why trade for a guy who will be out 6 games?

Well, it might just be 4 games. That aside, look at what you are getting in terms of talent. Look at his age. Look at his contract.

He will make 8.05 million in 2010. He will make a little over 11 million from 2011-2014 and will make a little over 12 million in 2015. Where are you going to find a two time super bowl winning QB in his twenties and be able to not only get away with a reasonable yearly salary but also not have to pay a giant signing bonus?

Regardless of how much of a creep i think he is, there is no doubt he can play. Taking away Manning, Brady and Brees, Ben is in the conversation with any other QB in the league and you can still build a team around him.

If you are the Bills or Browns, you wouldn't take him over what else is out there?

[randallscott35]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

Well, it might just be 4 games. That aside, look at what you are getting in terms of talent. Look at his age. Look at his contract.

He will make 8.05 million in 2010. He will make a little over 11 million from 2011-2014 and will make a little over 12 million in 2015. Where are you going to find a two time super bowl winning QB in his twenties and be able to not only get away with a reasonable yearly salary but also not have to pay a giant signing bonus?

Regardless of how much of a creep i think he is, there is no doubt he can play. Taking away Manning, Brady and Brees, Ben is in the conversation with any other QB in the league and you can still build a team around him.

If you are the Bills or Browns, you wouldn't take him over what else is out there?

Baggage. No.

[Nascar1966]

Originally Posted by randallscott35

Why trade for a guy who will be out 6 games?

You have just brought an excellent point. Im thinking if someone trades for him they will more likely make him a fix to a bad quarterback situation. Im sure there might at least four or five teams who need help at quarterback and might be willing to trade for a quarterback who has proven that he knows how to win games. I am well aware there are a few talented quarterbacks in this years draft. Is a team willing to get an unproven quarterback when there is a proven quarterback available? Again I think its disgraceful what Roethlisberger has done. Im sure some teams are willing to take a chance on him. How many chances did Pacman Jones get?

[Rudeboyelvis]

Originally Posted by randallscott35

Why trade for a guy who will be out 6 games?

I can name 6 teams easily, and probably another 10 with some thought... Amazing they wait until 2 days before the draft to announce it - they must have a stake in boosting the draft day ratings

[Rudeboyelvis]

By the way, the Redskins are now officially kicking themselves in the asz.

[3kings]

Originally Posted by docicu3

At the risk of touching off a political nuclear explosion it should be said nonetheless that there is something wrong about this concept of a second layer of double jeopardy justice fueled and dictated by an employer who sanctions when the police have walked away from prosecution of Ben's behavior never mind enforcement.

Obviously I do not know what Ben has done, with whom and how much of it qualifies as decadent and/or immoral. If I had better access to exactly what went on perhaps I would feel differently but I have a problem when a punishment is levied when our judicial system did not feel that the standard for punishment had been clearly violated enough for even a TRIAL, never mind a finding reached that deems punishment appropriate for discussion.



I actually wish Ben would walk away and retire immediately and let the Steelers and the Commish scramble to explain how this turned into a lifetime vacation from the game and theft from Steeler fans of a pretty decent QB.

Doc,
Living in Pittsburgh and being a season ticket holder I have followed this story pretty closely, I disagree. Even though there was not enough evidence to convict him of a crime(this time) it does not mean his behavior would or should be tolerated by any employer. There are at least 3-4 other indiscretions that have been substantiated around town that seem to be within his realm of behavioral possibilities. When your alleged best pick-up move is to unzip your pants, expose yourself and say "do whatever you want", you are not representing your employer very well. There is a consistent pattern of sub-human behavior which casts your business in a bad way you have to do something.
I also wish he would walk away from the Steelers and retire. IMO if he walked away or was not a pro athlete he would already be in jail or beaten to a pulp. Either way he would not be a exposing himself or forcing himself on star struck college co-eds.

[Rudeboyelvis]

Originally Posted by 3kings

Doc,
Living in Pittsburgh and being a season ticket holder I have followed this story pretty closely, I disagree. Even though there was not enough evidence to convict him of a crime(this time) it does not mean his behavior would or should be tolerated by any employer. There are at least 3-4 other indiscretions that have been substantiated around town that seem to be within his realm of behavioral possibilities. When your alleged best pick-up move is to unzip your pants, expose yourself and say "do whatever you want", you are not representing your employer very well. There is a consistent pattern of sub-human behavior which casts your business in a bad way you have to do something.
I also wish he would walk away from the Steelers and retire. IMO if he walked away or was not a pro athlete he would already be in jail or beaten to a pulp. Either way he would not be a exposing himself or forcing himself on star struck college co-eds.

Tom - if not for the "modern" media, Babe Ruth would have been canonized.... I'm in no way dismissing his actions, he's a first class azshole, and an absolute piece of sh1t...
The sad reality is that Pittsburgh has no answer without him, and at the end of the day, that's all they look at.... - Fortunately they could stick Beetlejuice behind center and still sell out Heinz Field.

[hi_im_god]

Originally Posted by docicu3

At the risk of touching off a political nuclear explosion it should be said nonetheless that there is something wrong about this concept of a second layer of double jeopardy justice fueled and dictated by an employer who sanctions when the police have walked away from prosecution of Ben's behavior never mind enforcement.

Obviously I do not know what Ben has done, with whom and how much of it qualifies as decadent and/or immoral. If I had better access to exactly what went on perhaps I would feel differently but I have a problem when a punishment is levied when our judicial system did not feel that the standard for punishment had been clearly violated enough for even a TRIAL, never mind a finding reached that deems punishment appropriate for discussion.



I actually wish Ben would walk away and retire immediately and let the Steelers and the Commish scramble to explain how this turned into a lifetime vacation from the game and theft from Steeler fans of a pretty decent QB.

the double jeopardy model doesn't really fit here. and if it did, this would be more like triple jeopardy since the state declined to criminally prosecute him and all this followed.

think of it this way. if a doctor does something that jeopardizes their medical license, does the employer have no recourse outside whatever the state licensing board decides is appropriate?

do they have to keep employing that person?

[docicu3]

Originally Posted by hi_im_god

the double jeopardy model doesn't really fit here. and if it did, this would be more like triple jeopardy since the state declined to criminally prosecute him and all this followed.

think of it this way. if a doctor does something that jeopardizes their medical license, does the employer have no recourse outside whatever the state licensing board decides is appropriate?

do they have to keep employing that person?

I understand what your saying but in medicine it works the other way. If a doc does something outside of accepted practice patterns, the hospital pulls his privileges which forces the doc to comment on the events when he tries to renew his state license. A complaint filed is processed this way unless there is an immediate danger to the community like a guy who operates and drinks.

Hospitals are given tremendous latitude to police their nurses and docs. Rarely does a hospital face charges about how it disciplines docs and nurses

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by docicu3

I understand what your saying but in medicine it works the other way. If a doc does something outside of accepted practice patterns, the hospital pulls his privileges which forces the doc to comment on the events when he tries to renew his state license. A complaint filed is processed this way unless there is an immediate danger to the community like a guy who operates and drinks.

I know a doctor that was suspended for having an affair with a married patient (also treated spouse). There is nothing "illegal" about that is there?

[docicu3]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

I know a doctor that was suspended for having an affair with a married patient (also treated spouse). There is nothing "illegal" about that is there?

Yes actually it is illegal and he'll face criminal charges in most states......

[GBBob]

Ben not a leader? Good article..

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/otl/n...ory?id=5132299

[randallscott35]

JJ Cooper
NFL Blogger
I have a friend who collects Pittsburgh Steelers Sports Illustrated covers. Whether it's the Super Bowl covers, Kordell Stewart on the NFL Preview or Frank Pollard rumbling against the 1984 Broncos, he frames it and hangs it on a wall in his Steelers' room.

Ben Roethlisberger is on the cover of this week's Sports Illustrated, but I'm not sure my friend will be framing this week's SI. In a story written by Jack McCallum that carries the headline of "The Hangover," Sports Illustrated spells out the tale of a quarterback who leaves countless people turned off by his arrogance.

If there is good news in the story for Roethlisberger, it's that there isn't much new reporting in this story. McCallum spells out in exacting detail some of the stories of Roethlisberger's feelings of entitlement -- skipping out on paying checks in restaurants, treating women with disrespect and generally acting like a lout -- but all of those stories had already been spelled out in ESPN's Outside The Lines' story on Roethlisberger. The story also gives details of the court case in Las Vegas and the accusations in Milledgeville, but those have been covered everywhere.

The one detail that hasn't been really covered elsewhere is that, just months after Ben Roethlisberger was nearly killed in a motorcycle accident while not wearing a helmet, he was caught on video riding his motorcycle again without a helmet. According to SI, the video didn't air only because it was recorded by KDKA-TV, the station which is the flagship station of the Steelers, and they buried it to avoid angering the Steelers (the station denies that such a tape ever existed).

So there are few new allegations against Roethlisberger, but that doesn't really matter. What this story does is reinforces what has become the narrative of Roethlisberger's story: He's an arrogant man who wanders through life asking "don't you know who I am?"

What's most significant is there is no competing narrative by Roethlisberger, his agent or any of his friends. There is no push-back to try to make the argument that Roethlisberger isn't that bad or that the stories are being exaggerated. And without any competing storyline, it's becoming accepted as the unquestioned truth. That doesn't mean that Roethlisberger can't turn his life around, and the argument could be made that having his boorish behavior called out may help push him to change, but it does mean that Roethlisberger has to accept a new role -- that as one of the most despised players in the NFL.

First he has to win back Steelers' fans. He can do that by changing his ways and winning football games, but he also has to know that winning back NFL fans nationally will be an almost impossible task. To do it, there will eventually have to be stories of "Roethlisberger, the changed man" to compete with all the stories of him being a nightmare to be around.