cbo report on '13 obama budget

[wiphan]

Originally Posted by Riot

Have you guys seen Romney, Gingrich and Santorums budgets? They blow the deficit up into trillions with their massive tax cuts for the wealthy.

I'll take an unexpected $75 billion more in deficit - and heading in the right direction to eliminate the deficit more each year - any day, thanks.

Even if the above statement is correct that is not the point. The point is the government continues to lie to the people. If it is the left, democrats and obama doing it you say it is great and heading in the right direction though. If it is the GOP (or for example Gov. Walker) you are the first to try and call him out on it or prove that he lied. Try not being a hypocrite for 1 day.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by wiphan

Even if the above statement is correct that is not the point. The point is the government continues to lie to the people.

And for one day, you need to look at facts and figures, and not let your hate and name-calling stand in the way and give you preconceived ideas.

You say, "even if the above statement is correct that is not the point". Yes, that IS precisely the point. The point is not your hate of the government, your determination to ignore anything that will negatively color your opnion, and your blanket dismissal of facts in evidence to remove support for your opinion. The point is your opinion should be based in reality. Not your dismissal of fact.

Walker has measurable factual failures, such as Wisconsin losing more jobs than every other state in the past months, and you simply refuse to acknowlege these facts exist. So don't call me names. Because you look pretty loony.

No, the point is that every single year, for every single Congress and the budgets they make, as the CBO updates future budgets and current projections based upon changes to the tax base (our income, which constantly changes due to unemployment levels, etc), the figures change, and always have.

Calling it a "deliberate lie" is absurdly making personal the routine accounting procedures of this country.

And get real: $75 billion difference in projected vs closer real-time projection? That is a very accurate "what does the budget actually end up coming in at" figure! Our budget is trillions. $75 billion is nothing.

The truth is: President Obama is far more fiscally conservative than every other single Presidential candidate now running, and also preserves and grows the social programs we depend upon to be a first world country, while massively improving our nations health care and overall quality of life.

Wiphan says, "even if the above statement is correct that is not the point

In other words, you will never let your opinion be changed by the facts. That's absurd.

[wiphan]

Originally Posted by Riot

And for one day, you need to look at facts and figures, and not let your hate and name-calling stand in the way and give you preconceived ideas.

You say, "even if the above statement is correct that is not the point". Yes, that IS precisely the point. The point is not your hate of the government, your determination to ignore anything that will negatively color your opnion, and your blanket dismissal of facts in evidence to remove support for your opinion. The point is your opinion should be based in reality. Not your dismissal of fact.

Walker has measurable factual failures, such as Wisconsin losing more jobs than every other state in the past months, and you simply refuse to acknowlege these facts exist. So don't call me names. Because you look pretty loony.

No, the point is that every single year, for every single Congress and the budgets they make, as the CBO updates future budgets and current projections based upon changes to the tax base (our income, which constantly changes due to unemployment levels, etc), the figures change, and always have.

Calling it a "deliberate lie" is absurdly making personal the routine accounting procedures of this country.

And get real: $75 billion difference in projected vs closer real-time projection? That is a very accurate "what does the budget actually end up coming in at" figure! Our budget is trillions. $75 billion is nothing.

The truth is: President Obama is far more fiscally conservative than every other single Presidential candidate now running, and also preserves and grows the social programs we depend upon to be a first world country, while massively improving our nations health care and overall quality of life.



In other words, you will never let your opinion be changed by the facts. That's absurd.

Stop being a hypocrite and people might actually listen to your opinion. I am not calling you names by any means just pointing out what many others on here have already done. If you point the finger at one side you better be willing to point your finger at the other side.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by wiphan

Stop being a hypocrite and people might actually listen to your opinion

I am not posting an "opinion". I am posting "facts". You know, those things that don't depend upon what your or my opinion is?

Fact: the real-time CBO evaluation of $75 billion in deficit over previous long-term projections is quite good, and these projections change every year, for every president. In other words, changing projections is normal and usual. And $75 billion is a very small amount, based upon income tax adjustments the government has to make (that's our income, which flucuates and is not always as anticipated)

Fact: Wisconsin has the worse job creation rate in the country over the past 6-7 months under Scott Walker, 49th in the country.

[wiphan]

Originally Posted by Riot

I am not posting an "opinion". I am posting "facts".

You know, those things that don't depend upon what your or my opinion is?

That is the funniest thing I heard today. Thanks for the laugh. Have a wonderful weekend. Happy St. Patty's Day!

[Riot]

Originally Posted by wiphan

That is the funniest thing I heard today. Thanks for the laugh. Have a wonderful weekend. Happy St. Patty's Day!

You are simply unable to bring any other facts into this discussion about government budgets and CBO estimates, hum?

Just can't do it. Can only call names and leave. Got it.

[dellinger63]

Originally Posted by Riot

Fact: Wisconsin has the worse job creation rate in the country over the past 6-7 months under Scott Walker, 49th in the country.

Stop lying!

Wis monthly unemployment rate for the last year even w/the cuts to public sector jobs

2011 Jan 3069656(B) 2833068(B) 236588(B) 7.7(B)
2011 Feb 3070780(B) 2836783(B) 233997(B) 7.6(B)
2011 Mar 3070312(B) 2838145(B) 232167(B) 7.6(B)
2011 Apr 3067707(B) 2836190(B) 231517(B) 7.5(B)
2011 May 3063898(B) 2831604(B) 232294(B) 7.6(B)
2011 Jun 3060386(B) 2826899(B) 233487(B) 7.6(B)
2011 Jul 3058088(B) 2824515(B) 233573(B) 7.6(B)
2011 Aug 3057357(B) 2825784(B) 231573(B) 7.6(B)
2011 Sep 3057366(B) 2829775(B) 227591(B) 7.4(B)
2011 Oct 3057248(B) 2834554(B) 222694(B) 7.3(B)
2011 Nov 3056534(B) 2838869(B) 217665(B) 7.1(B)
2011 Dec 3056367(B) 2843199(B) 213168(B) 7.0(B)
2012 Jan 3054720(P) 2844774(P) 209946(P) 6.9(P)

6.9% last month reported. What's KY's rate?

[Riot]

Originally Posted by dellinger63

Stop lying!

LOL. You stop lying. You're the only one I've ever seen make this argument. Not even the far right-wing blogs make this argument about Wisconsin.

By the way: you posted unemployment rates. Those are not lob loss numbers. Unemployment rate and job loss numbers are two entirely different things.

Use the real Federal Labor Statistic figures, as everyone else in the world does.

MADISON – Today, the Bureau of Labor Statistics released a report compiling job numbers for every state in the Union. The report shows Wisconsin is the only state to have lost jobs for the past six straight months, while the nation as a whole has gained jobs for 22 straight months.

http://www.politiscoop.com/us-politi...job-loss-.html

Figures are in the above story.

Capitol Report: Wisconsin leads nation in job losses

Read more: http://host.madison.com/ct/news/loca...#ixzz1pJYgWU59

Figures contained in article.

Politifact: Wisconsin leads nation in job loss
http://www.politifact.com/wisconsin/...0000-new-jobs/

Figures contained in article.

[dellinger63]

Originally Posted by Riot

LOL. You stop lying. You're the only one I've ever seen make this argument. Not even the far right-wing blogs make this argument about Wisconsin.

By the way: you posted unemployment rates. Those are not lob loss numbers. Unemployment rate and job loss numbers are two entirely different things.

Use the real Federal Labor Statistic figures, as everyone else in the world does.



Figures are in the above story.



Figures contained in article.

Politifact: Wisconsin leads nation in job loss
http://www.politifact.com/wisconsin/...0000-new-jobs/

Figures contained in article.

I went directly to the source, The United States Department of Labor, Bureau of Labor Statistics, not some article.

BTW KY is 8.8% v. 6.9% WI

You are aware the lower the number the better? I'd be worrying about the State you live in!

http://data.bls.gov/map/MapToolServlet?survey=la

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by wiphan

Even if the above statement is correct that is not the point. The point is the government continues to lie to the people. If it is the left, democrats and obama doing it you say it is great and heading in the right direction though. If it is the GOP (or for example Gov. Walker) you are the first to try and call him out on it or prove that he lied. Try not being a hypocrite for 1 day.

we are in bad shape:

The Congressional Budget Office on Tuesday predicted the deficit will rise to $1.08 trillion in 2012.

The office also projected the jobless rate would rise to 8.9 percent by the end of 2012, and to 9.2 percent in 2013.

These are much dimmer forecasts than in CBO’s last report in August, when the office projected a $973 billion deficit. The report reflects weaker corporate tax revenue and the extension for two months of the payroll tax holiday.

A rising deficit and unemployment rate would hamper President Obama’s reelection effort, which in recent weeks has seemed to be on stronger footing.

If the CBO estimate is correct, it would mean that the United States recorded a deficit of more than $1 trillion for every year of Obama’s first term.

CBO Director Doug Elmendorf told reporters that Congress will have to make important choices this year regarding the supercommittee trigger and tax policy that will have huge effects on the deficit.

While unable to recommend choices, Elmendorf said that addressing the deficit sooner rather than later is easier.

The deficit was $1.4 trillion in 2009, $1.3 trillion in 2010 and $1.3 trillion in 2011. The largest deficit recorded before that was $458 billion in 2008.

CBO had forecast an 8.5 percent unemployment rate for the end of 2012 in its August report. It now expects the jobless rate to be higher and to still be at 7 percent in 2015.

The higher unemployment numbers are due to lower economic growth than previously estimated. Gross domestic product for 2011 is now estimated to have grown 1.6 percent in 2011, down from the 2.3 percent forecast in August. CBO a year ago had predicted 3.1 percent growth for 2011.

The outlook for 2012 has also worsened. GDP is forecast to grow only 2 percent this year, compared to a previous estimate of 2.7 percent.

Budget cuts from the August debt deal and projected tax increases set to kick in when the Bush tax rates expire at the end of the year, will “restrain economic growth this year and significantly restrain growth in 2013,” according to CBO. But it says the fiscal prudence will help growth in the out years.

http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/cbo...gh-employment/

at the end:

With employment already near 9% and likely to stay there for two years or more, another recession would be disastrous, with unforeseeable political consequences. Thanks to our long term debt issues, there isn’t a whole lot that Washington can do in the way of direct stimulus — both massive new spending and a massive new tax cut (without spending cuts) seem out of the question right now. The Federal Reserve has kept interest rates near zero for years now, and apparently plans to continue doing so through 2014. It’s hard to see what else there is left to do other than let things work themselves out. Of course, that’s never the answer politicians want to hear.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Danzig

we are in bad shape:

We are in far better shape than we were 4 years ago, and we are heading in the right direction.

While the Republicans in the House and Senate have done little to nothing to help.

Every single current Republican presidential candidate threatens to undo that progress, and return us to the same disastrous financial policies that were the Bush presidency.

Oh, yeah: and how much deficit did Obama inherit his first day of office? And how much of that ongoing deficit is due to the ongoing costs of Bush's unpaid financial disasters? Most of it. Bush's legacy of financial disaster for this country doesn't go away the day he did. Obama not only is responsible for his own debt, but cleaning up Bush's mess.

[dellinger63]

The ONLY way you can cut the deficit or even attempt to cut the deficit is to eliminate accessibility to the endless credit stream actually river we've been riding.

Pure and simple say NO! to any ceiling increase!


Oh and repeal Obamacare and save $1.76 trillion today

[Riot]

Originally Posted by dellinger63

The ONLY way you can cut the deficit or even attempt to cut the deficit is to eliminate accessibility to the endless credit stream actually river we've been riding.

Pure and simple say NO! to any ceiling increase!

Our government works by having a credit line for cash flow, so we can pay our bills when they come due.

How does eliminating our credit line make those bills disappear?

Oh and repeal Obamacare and save $1.76 trillion today

That $1.76 trillion over years is already paid for. The CBO rates Obamacares as a net-zero program. It is paid for within the program. That has been common public knowledge - or should be - since two years ago, when this bill was voted into law.

You know, that's a good thing: when the government ensures a program is funded before they put it into law? Obamacares is funded. And not even the GOP says that's not true.

You know, the opposite of what George Bush second did, putting us trillions into debt with unfunded wars and Medicare health care plans.