OWS Zucotti Park

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by Cardus

Rubbish.

i respecfully disagree that the Occupy movement is a left wing movement. I do think it is categorized as one by some media, but I personally know as many or more conservatives who support it than liberals.

people of all political backgrounds should be pissed about how Wall Street has bought out the goverment.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Antitrust32

i respecfully disagree that the Occupy movement is a left wing movement. I do think it is categorized as one by some media, but I personally know as many or more conservatives who support it than liberals.

people of all political backgrounds should be pissed about how Wall Street has bought out the goverment.

is that wall streets fault, or the govts?

[Rudeboyelvis]

Originally Posted by Danzig

is that wall streets fault, or the govts?

Neither - it is the Electorate's fault for laying complacent and allowing criminals to infiltrate Wall St. and the Gov't without reproach.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Rudeboyelvis

Neither - it is the Electorate's fault for laying complacent and allowing criminals to infiltrate Wall St. and the Gov't without reproach.

i disagree.
the buyer is wrong, but i would think the seller would be more so. but i am neither, how am i at fault? all i'm asking is, how can you blame wall street? you can't buy what someone else isn't selling. the govt is supposed to do what's best, not what's purchased. if they have no honor, they need to go. they're supposed to be the ones who make laws to prevent things such as the whole banking scandal. instead, congress voted to get rid of regulations to prevent what happened after-and now we know why. if you're bought, you know immediately you're corrupt. it's not something voters find out about right away. now we know, so hopefully now there will be action.
lol yeah, right.
just like congress was going to become more ethical. the fox is watching the henhouse in that regard.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Danzig

is that wall streets fault, or the govts?

It's OUR fault, for allowing it to happen.

Good grief: look at the current GOP candidates: Herman Cain is wholly-owned by the Koch brothers (as is his chief of staff, Mark Block, they both were lecturers on the Koch circuit and employees), Newt Gingrich was exposed just today to be lying about the millions he received as a lobbyist for Freddie Mac (he denied the income and the lobbying). We elect these people. Yes, Obama has tons of ties to Goldman Sachs.

Occupy says that's over. Dems, Republicans, it doesn't matter - if you are owned by lobbyists, if you govern for them and not us, your days are numbered. It's that simple.

Occupy has spread to 200 occupations world-wide. It will be the most potent political force in the next election. It is completely non-partisan.

That scares the status quo corporatists, as they will not be able to purchase it, as they did the Tea Party.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Riot

It's OUR fault, for allowing it to happen.

Good grief: look at the current GOP candidates: Herman Cain is wholly-owned by the Koch brothers (as is his chief of staff, Mark Block, they both were lecturers on the Koch circuit and employees), Newt Gingrich was exposed just today to be lying about the millions he received as a lobbyist for Freddie Mac (he denied the income and the lobbying). We elect these people. Yes, Obama has tons of ties to Goldman Sachs.

Occupy says that's over. Dems, Republicans, it doesn't matter - if you are owned by lobbyists, if you govern for them and not us, your days are numbered. It's that simple.

Occupy has spread to 200 occupations world-wide. It will be the most potent political force in the next election. It is completely non-partisan.

That scares the status quo corporatists, as they will not be able to purchase it, as they did the Tea Party.

this is one of the reasons i advocate term limits. people can't become entrenched and send pork back for their constituents to get fat on, if they can't stay long enough to become 'too big to fail'.
as for cain, he's not a current officeholder, not sure what you mentioned him for. it's the decades-long senators and representatives who have figured out how to work the system.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Danzig

as for cain, he's not a current officeholder, not sure what you mentioned him for. .

Because he is a self-described, "Koch brotha by another motha". He and his campaign chief Block have long worked for the Koch brothers and their PAC. Everyone knows this - Cain even BRAGS about it, see above quote - Cain has run for Senator and President before. Who is keeping his campaign financed? Look at his campaign finance documents. Before Cain worked for the Koch brothers, he was (famously) lobbyist for the National Restaurant Association.

Cain is a wholly-owned corporate candidate. He is currently owned by the Koch brothers. And they are not even shy about saying that. Yet there are tons of American voters out there who mistakenly think Cain is some kind of magical "independent businessman" with no ties to Washington? Good grief, Cain himself brags on his Koch connection! He is proud of it!

Cain is what OWS is all about.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Riot

Because he is a self-described, "Koch brotha by another motha". He and his campaign chief Block have long worked for the Koch brothers and their PAC. Everyone knows this - Cain even BRAGS about it, see above quote - Cain has run for Senator and President before. Who is keeping his campaign financed? Look at his campaign finance documents. Before Cain worked for the Koch brothers, he was (famously) lobbyist for the National Restaurant Association.

Cain is a wholly-owned corporate candidate. He is currently owned by the Koch brothers. And they are not even shy about saying that. Yet there are tons of American voters out there who mistakenly think Cain is some kind of magical "independent businessman" with no ties to Washington? Good grief, Cain himself brags on his Koch connection! He is proud of it!

Cain is what OWS is all about.

i don't expect him to win anyway, so i guess i just don't pay any attention to him.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Danzig

i don't expect him to win anyway, so i guess i just don't pay any attention to him.

Today, Newt is talking about a Gingrich-Cain ticket. I think that's the "book sales" tour.

Here is a fantastic video interview with the 84-year-old, Dorli, who was pepper sprayed at Occupy Seattle (along with some pretty damning police brutality pictures). She talks also about being in German/Austria in WW2, listening to Goebbles propaganda. Amazing stuff.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...v=ENfWJzXVD0Q#!

[Clip-Clop]

Originally Posted by Riot

It's OUR fault, for allowing it to happen.

Good grief: look at the current GOP candidates: Herman Cain is wholly-owned by the Koch brothers (as is his chief of staff, Mark Block, they both were lecturers on the Koch circuit and employees), Newt Gingrich was exposed just today to be lying about the millions he received as a lobbyist for Freddie Mac (he denied the income and the lobbying). We elect these people. Yes, Obama has tons of ties to Goldman Sachs.

Occupy says that's over. Dems, Republicans, it doesn't matter - if you are owned by lobbyists, if you govern for them and not us, your days are numbered. It's that simple.

Occupy has spread to 200 occupations world-wide. It will be the most potent political force in the next election. It is completely non-partisan.

That scares the status quo corporatists, as they will not be able to purchase it, as they did the Tea Party.

Sure they will, in the end it will just come cheaper.

[DaTruth]

Originally Posted by Riot

Occupy has spread to 200 occupations world-wide. It will be the most potent political force in the next election. It is completely non-partisan.

Any effect that it will have is to hurt moderate Democrats in toss-up districts and states.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by DaTruth

Any effect that it will have is to hurt moderate Democrats in toss-up districts and states.

How?

I will say that "moderate Dems" today (not blue dogs) is exactly what a Republican was 20 years ago Our Democratic party is very conservative, compared to the rest of first world countries.

The Democratic party has more politicians aligned with OWS values than the Republicans (zero) but half the Dems are corporate owned puppets, too.

OWS isn't going to go to candidates and endorse them. OWS is about values, morality and ethics in government, getting the American government back into the hands of the citizens, and getting corporate ownership out.

Candidates - like Elizabeth Warren - that support OWS type values will win overwhelmingly. She's already drawing legendary crowd numbers to support her candidacy.

The Republican party seems to be currently imploding with extremism and corporate ownership. Walker (Wisconsin), Kasich (Ohio) and Scott (Florida) are the most disliked governors in the country. All swing states that will affect the downticket candidates. Kasich just had his signature union-busting legislation repealed, his voter ID blocking is up for repeal now, too; Walker is currently under a recall attempt with multiple other Republicans in government in Wisconsin. Florida can't recall Scott, but they have major buyers regret. He's the least liked governor in the country.

Thus the Occupy movement, I think, will NOT hurt those moderate Dems, but help them, as they are so contrasted with the extremes the Republicans have become. So many people have left the current Republican party to call themselves "Independents", because they don't want to be associated with the John Birch Society/Republicans, I think those will embrace those "moderate Dems" (who are actually a more typical Republican).

There are only 25-28% of people that strongly self-identify as "Republican" with the current party. I think all the ex-Republicans will become the new "moderate Dems" and "independents" and there will emerge a smaller (25-30%) new and very progressive wing of the Democratic party (more Occupy). The current Republican party will be relegated to third party status.

Your thoughts?

[DaTruth]

Originally Posted by Riot

How?

I will say that "moderate Dems" today (not blue dogs) is exactly what a Republican was 20 years ago Our Democratic party is very conservative, compared to the rest of first world countries.

The Democratic party has more politicians aligned with OWS values than the Republicans (zero) but half the Dems are corporate owned puppets, too.

OWS isn't going to go to candidates and endorse them. OWS is about values, morality and ethics in government, getting the American government back into the hands of the citizens, and getting corporate ownership out.

Candidates - like Elizabeth Warren - that support OWS type values will win overwhelmingly. She's already drawing legendary crowd numbers to support her candidacy.

The Republican party seems to be currently imploding with extremism and corporate ownership. Walker (Wisconsin), Kasich (Ohio) and Scott (Florida) are the most disliked governors in the country. All swing states that will affect the downticket candidates. Kasich just had his signature union-busting legislation repealed, his voter ID blocking is up for repeal now, too; Walker is currently under a recall attempt with multiple other Republicans in government in Wisconsin. Florida can't recall Scott, but they have major buyers regret. He's the least liked governor in the country.

Thus the Occupy movement, I think, will NOT hurt those moderate Dems, but help them, as they are so contrasted with the extremes the Republicans have become. So many people have left the current Republican party to call themselves "Independents", because they don't want to be associated with the John Birch Society/Republicans, I think those will embrace those "moderate Dems" (who are actually a more typical Republican).

There are only 25-28% of people that strongly self-identify as "Republican" with the current party. I think all the ex-Republicans will become the new "moderate Dems" and "independents" and there will emerge a smaller (25-30%) new and very progressive wing of the Democratic party (more Occupy). The current Republican party will be relegated to third party status.

Your thoughts?

OWS is not presenting a coherent message, and I suppose that is part of its charm to participants who feel they have an equal say in where OWS goes from here. But no organization can survive without any sort of hierarchy. Orders from the the generals at the top eventually make their way to the foot soldiers.

If OWS is a sustainable NATIONAL political movement, then you will see like-minded Democratic candidates in swing states embrace it next summer. Otherwise, it is going to be relegated to having influence in liberal districts and states. Remember, what plays in New York does not necessarily play in Little Rock. If OWS is viewed as a movement hijacked by liberal extremists, then don't count on independents siding with them over the Republicans.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by DaTruth

OWS is not presenting a coherent message, and I suppose that is part of its charm to participants who feel they have an equal say in where OWS goes from here. But no organization can survive without any sort of hierarchy. Orders from the the generals at the top eventually make their way to the foot soldiers.

If OWS is a sustainable NATIONAL political movement, then you will see like-minded Democratic candidates in swing states embrace it next summer. Otherwise, it is going to be relegated to having influence in liberal districts and states. Remember, what plays in New York does not necessarily play in Little Rock. If OWS is viewed as a movement hijacked by liberal extremists, then don't count on independents siding with them over the Republicans.

You make valid points.

However, I think, as Antitrust has said, Occupy is clearly "not" a "liberal" movement, there are plenty of Libertarians (tons of Ron Paul supporters) along with Republicans, Dems, progressives, anarchists, etc. The vast majority are just average Americans - nurses, doctors, union workers, students, etc.

Regarding "the message" - the "message" has been very clear and coherent to anybody who has bothered to pay attention: our government has been corrupted by money, is owned by corporate interests, and the average voting American thus has little say in what happens any more, and has been very screwed over the past 40-50 years while the plutocracy has thrived. They want to change that.

I really don't see how anyone can miss this. The mainstream media has generally done a very poor job of presenting Occupy - but there is limitless factual information out there over the internet - anyone can get involved.

As far as "organization" or "government" of the Occupy movement, they have a very well-developed representative General Assembly process, they have close contacts between Occupies in different towns (Little Rock vs New York).

The paradigm of "one leader" being necessary is very successfully being refuted so far. You have to be willing to let go of the political labels of "Dem, Republican", etc.

[Rudeboyelvis]

Originally Posted by Antitrust32

i respecfully disagree that the Occupy movement is a left wing movement. I do think it is categorized as one by some media, but I personally know as many or more conservatives who support it than liberals.

people of all political backgrounds should be pissed about how Wall Street has bought out the goverment.

I don't believe for a moment that this movement is "left wing" or inherently "liberally bias" either. Regardless of what Fox News wants to cram down their drone's throats.

The main ideals were pointed out very poignantly in a previous post (#17).


Unfortunately most of the responsible supporters of the movement can't afford to lay around in a park all day and all night with no agenda and no end in sight. It would be refreshing to see some organization, a unified message, and some castigation for the fringe anti-capitalist, dirtheads and hangers on that have attached themselves to this for their own personal reasons (like so they can sit around in a drum circle and smoke dope all day) and in turn have not only drawn negative attention to OWS, but have drawn attention away from the original message.