OWS Zucotti Park

[Riot]

Originally Posted by DaTruth

Any effect that it will have is to hurt moderate Democrats in toss-up districts and states.

How?

I will say that "moderate Dems" today (not blue dogs) is exactly what a Republican was 20 years ago Our Democratic party is very conservative, compared to the rest of first world countries.

The Democratic party has more politicians aligned with OWS values than the Republicans (zero) but half the Dems are corporate owned puppets, too.

OWS isn't going to go to candidates and endorse them. OWS is about values, morality and ethics in government, getting the American government back into the hands of the citizens, and getting corporate ownership out.

Candidates - like Elizabeth Warren - that support OWS type values will win overwhelmingly. She's already drawing legendary crowd numbers to support her candidacy.

The Republican party seems to be currently imploding with extremism and corporate ownership. Walker (Wisconsin), Kasich (Ohio) and Scott (Florida) are the most disliked governors in the country. All swing states that will affect the downticket candidates. Kasich just had his signature union-busting legislation repealed, his voter ID blocking is up for repeal now, too; Walker is currently under a recall attempt with multiple other Republicans in government in Wisconsin. Florida can't recall Scott, but they have major buyers regret. He's the least liked governor in the country.

Thus the Occupy movement, I think, will NOT hurt those moderate Dems, but help them, as they are so contrasted with the extremes the Republicans have become. So many people have left the current Republican party to call themselves "Independents", because they don't want to be associated with the John Birch Society/Republicans, I think those will embrace those "moderate Dems" (who are actually a more typical Republican).

There are only 25-28% of people that strongly self-identify as "Republican" with the current party. I think all the ex-Republicans will become the new "moderate Dems" and "independents" and there will emerge a smaller (25-30%) new and very progressive wing of the Democratic party (more Occupy). The current Republican party will be relegated to third party status.

Your thoughts?

[DaTruth]

Originally Posted by Riot

How?

I will say that "moderate Dems" today (not blue dogs) is exactly what a Republican was 20 years ago Our Democratic party is very conservative, compared to the rest of first world countries.

The Democratic party has more politicians aligned with OWS values than the Republicans (zero) but half the Dems are corporate owned puppets, too.

OWS isn't going to go to candidates and endorse them. OWS is about values, morality and ethics in government, getting the American government back into the hands of the citizens, and getting corporate ownership out.

Candidates - like Elizabeth Warren - that support OWS type values will win overwhelmingly. She's already drawing legendary crowd numbers to support her candidacy.

The Republican party seems to be currently imploding with extremism and corporate ownership. Walker (Wisconsin), Kasich (Ohio) and Scott (Florida) are the most disliked governors in the country. All swing states that will affect the downticket candidates. Kasich just had his signature union-busting legislation repealed, his voter ID blocking is up for repeal now, too; Walker is currently under a recall attempt with multiple other Republicans in government in Wisconsin. Florida can't recall Scott, but they have major buyers regret. He's the least liked governor in the country.

Thus the Occupy movement, I think, will NOT hurt those moderate Dems, but help them, as they are so contrasted with the extremes the Republicans have become. So many people have left the current Republican party to call themselves "Independents", because they don't want to be associated with the John Birch Society/Republicans, I think those will embrace those "moderate Dems" (who are actually a more typical Republican).

There are only 25-28% of people that strongly self-identify as "Republican" with the current party. I think all the ex-Republicans will become the new "moderate Dems" and "independents" and there will emerge a smaller (25-30%) new and very progressive wing of the Democratic party (more Occupy). The current Republican party will be relegated to third party status.

Your thoughts?

OWS is not presenting a coherent message, and I suppose that is part of its charm to participants who feel they have an equal say in where OWS goes from here. But no organization can survive without any sort of hierarchy. Orders from the the generals at the top eventually make their way to the foot soldiers.

If OWS is a sustainable NATIONAL political movement, then you will see like-minded Democratic candidates in swing states embrace it next summer. Otherwise, it is going to be relegated to having influence in liberal districts and states. Remember, what plays in New York does not necessarily play in Little Rock. If OWS is viewed as a movement hijacked by liberal extremists, then don't count on independents siding with them over the Republicans.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by DaTruth

OWS is not presenting a coherent message, and I suppose that is part of its charm to participants who feel they have an equal say in where OWS goes from here. But no organization can survive without any sort of hierarchy. Orders from the the generals at the top eventually make their way to the foot soldiers.

If OWS is a sustainable NATIONAL political movement, then you will see like-minded Democratic candidates in swing states embrace it next summer. Otherwise, it is going to be relegated to having influence in liberal districts and states. Remember, what plays in New York does not necessarily play in Little Rock. If OWS is viewed as a movement hijacked by liberal extremists, then don't count on independents siding with them over the Republicans.

You make valid points.

However, I think, as Antitrust has said, Occupy is clearly "not" a "liberal" movement, there are plenty of Libertarians (tons of Ron Paul supporters) along with Republicans, Dems, progressives, anarchists, etc. The vast majority are just average Americans - nurses, doctors, union workers, students, etc.

Regarding "the message" - the "message" has been very clear and coherent to anybody who has bothered to pay attention: our government has been corrupted by money, is owned by corporate interests, and the average voting American thus has little say in what happens any more, and has been very screwed over the past 40-50 years while the plutocracy has thrived. They want to change that.

I really don't see how anyone can miss this. The mainstream media has generally done a very poor job of presenting Occupy - but there is limitless factual information out there over the internet - anyone can get involved.

As far as "organization" or "government" of the Occupy movement, they have a very well-developed representative General Assembly process, they have close contacts between Occupies in different towns (Little Rock vs New York).

The paradigm of "one leader" being necessary is very successfully being refuted so far. You have to be willing to let go of the political labels of "Dem, Republican", etc.