Baseball Playoffs

horseofcourse · #1 10-07-2011, 03:43 AM

When the Tigers acquired Fister they became the best team in baseball. Right now at this second, Verlander/Fister is a better 1-2 than Halladay/Lee and it's not even really close. The better team won that series without question. I don't know how he does it looking at him throw, but Fister was a great pitcher all year, he didn't get a heckuva lot of run support in Seattle.

Bigsmc · #2 10-07-2011, 04:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by horseofcourse

When the Tigers acquired Fister they became the best team in baseball. Right now at this second, Verlander/Fister is a better 1-2 than Halladay/Lee and it's not even really close. The better team won that series without question. I don't know how he does it looking at him throw, but Fister was a great pitcher all year, he didn't get a heckuva lot of run support in Seattle.

Antitrust32 in 5.....4......3......

slotdirt · #3 10-07-2011, 07:13 AM

Fister has basically pitched like a right handed version of Lee the last three months. But still, as much as I appreciate horsey's enthusiasm, I can't compare Verlander/Fister to Halladay/Lee. Maybe to Halladay/Lee Harvey Oswalt.

Antitrust32 · #4 10-07-2011, 07:43 AM

I'm counting on my horse tonight! I can't wait for game 5... this is what playoffs are all about!

#5 10-07-2011, 08:03 AM

Hope the Cards win. I have no interest otherwise.

jms62 · #6 10-07-2011, 08:16 AM

Not a fan of these 5 game series. If they want to do that then at least give the team with the best record in each league a first round bye and add another wild card team. Make having the best record more meaningful than home field advantage which in baseball isn't as important as football.

MaTH716 · #7 10-07-2011, 08:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jms62

Not a fan of these 5 game series. If they want to do that then at least give the team with the best record in each league a first round bye and add another wild card team. Make having the best record more meaningful than home field advantage which in baseball isn't as important as football.

It's funny you say that, I heard Leyland's press conference yesterday. He mentioned that sometimes he feels like it's better to be on the road for these elmination games. He said something about there being certain distractions at home in addition to the pressures of playing in front of the home crowd.

Cannon Shell · #8 10-07-2011, 10:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jms62

Not a fan of these 5 game series. If they want to do that then at least give the team with the best record in each league a first round bye and add another wild card team. Make having the best record more meaningful than home field advantage which in baseball isn't as important as football.

Getting a week off in baseball is not an advantage like football.

Cannon Shell · #9 10-07-2011, 10:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slotdirt

Fister has basically pitched like a right handed version of Lee the last three months. But still, as much as I appreciate horsey's enthusiasm, I can't compare Verlander/Fister to Halladay/Lee. Maybe to Halladay/Lee Harvey Oswalt.

Didn't Fister give up 6 runs in 4 innings in the 2nd part of game 1? He pitched well last night but lets not forget it took 92 pitches to get through 5 innings.

MaTH716 · #10 10-07-2011, 08:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by horseofcourse

When the Tigers acquired Fister they became the best team in baseball. Right now at this second, Verlander/Fister is a better 1-2 than Halladay/Lee and it's not even really close. The better team won that series without question. I don't know how he does it looking at him throw, but Fister was a great pitcher all year, he didn't get a heckuva lot of run support in Seattle.

Wow. Nothing else to say about that except, Wow.

As far as the best team winning the series, not sure about that either. Just like Joey said, the Yanks had a ton of men in scoring position and did absolutely nothing with those opportunites.

Good luck Tiger fans going forward against the Rangers.

Also for the record, I thought Jim Leyland out-managed Girardi.

slotdirt · #11 10-07-2011, 11:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaTH716

Wow. Nothing else to say about that except, Wow.

As far as the best team winning the series, not sure about that either. Just like Joey said, the Yanks had a ton of men in scoring position and did absolutely nothing with those opportunites.

Good luck Tiger fans going forward against the Rangers.

Also for the record, I thought Jim Leyland out-managed Girardi.

I'm not sure Leyland outmanaged Girardi (that's like the blind leading the blind). He just got lucky. Miguel Cabrera somehow ended up with over 100 RBI's this year despite Leyland continually placing three guys ahead of him who don't ever end up on base. I realize Delmon Young had a nice enough series, but continuing to bat low-OBP guys like Jackson and Don Kelly early in a lineup isn't going to win a lot of games on the offensive end.

Girardi wasn't great last night, I'll give you that.

Cannon Shell · #12 10-07-2011, 10:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slotdirt

I'm not sure Leyland outmanaged Girardi (that's like the blind leading the blind). He just got lucky. Miguel Cabrera somehow ended up with over 100 RBI's this year despite Leyland continually placing three guys ahead of him who don't ever end up on base. I realize Delmon Young had a nice enough series, but continuing to bat low-OBP guys like Jackson and Don Kelly early in a lineup isn't going to win a lot of games on the offensive end.

Girardi wasn't great last night, I'll give you that.

You keep going back to the line up thing but who exactly is he going to bat ahead of Caberera? They don't exactly have a lot of good options.

horseofcourse · #13 10-07-2011, 06:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaTH716

Wow. Nothing else to say about that except, Wow.

In a league with a DH I think the numbers certainly indicate Justin Verlander and Doug Fister were better pitchers all year than Roy Halladay and Cliff Lee. All 4 were really, really good this year. If you have to pick one PAIR and not individuals in order, I'd take the Tiger pair is all. I think they're better. I just do. I'm a big Cleveland fan, and I saw what the Tigers became after that trade with Seattle. They were nothing special before Fister. Post Fister, I feel they played better than any team in baseball. Yeah, perhaps I'm overreacting to the fact that the last two months of the season Doug Fister was the best starting pitcher in baseball, but it is right now and the facts are, he was really, really good with Seattle too.

ateamstupid · #14 10-07-2011, 06:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by horseofcourse

In a league with a DH I think the numbers certainly indicate Justin Verlander and Doug Fister were better pitchers all year than Roy Halladay and Cliff Lee. All 4 were really, really good this year. If you have to pick one PAIR and not individuals in order, I'd take the Tiger pair is all. I think they're better. I just do. I'm a big Cleveland fan, and I saw what the Tigers became after that trade with Seattle. They were nothing special before Fister. Post Fister, I feel they played better than any team in baseball. Yeah, perhaps I'm overreacting to the fact that the last two months of the season Doug Fister was the best starting pitcher in baseball, but it is right now and the facts are, he was really, really good with Seattle too.

That makes sense. A starting pitcher who plays every six days was solely responsible for the team having a torrid August and September. You're right, start molding his bust for Cooperstown.

Cannon Shell · #15 10-07-2011, 11:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

That makes sense. A starting pitcher who plays every six days was solely responsible for the team having a torrid August and September. You're right, start molding his bust for Cooperstown.

Fister dominated Cleveland 4 times down the stretch so forgive him for thinking he is the new Bob Gibson.

MaTH716 · #16 10-07-2011, 07:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by horseofcourse

In a league with a DH I think the numbers certainly indicate Justin Verlander and Doug Fister were better pitchers all year than Roy Halladay and Cliff Lee. All 4 were really, really good this year. If you have to pick one PAIR and not individuals in order, I'd take the Tiger pair is all. I think they're better. I just do. I'm a big Cleveland fan, and I saw what the Tigers became after that trade with Seattle. They were nothing special before Fister. Post Fister, I feel they played better than any team in baseball. Yeah, perhaps I'm overreacting to the fact that the last two months of the season Doug Fister was the best starting pitcher in baseball, but it is right now and the facts are, he was really, really good with Seattle too.

Halladay and Lee dominated the AL when they pitched there.
I'm sorry, I need to see more from Fister before I could put him in the same paragraph, let alone sentence with the other pitchers mentioned. I'm taking nothing away from the guy, he pitched well. But Joey is right, I just get the feeling that after a couple of times through the order, he will get pounded. The Yanks just did a bad job on getting the timely hit yesterday. He seemed to be up in the zone and that's usually a recipe for disaster.

Cannon Shell · #17 10-07-2011, 11:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by horseofcourse

In a league with a DH I think the numbers certainly indicate Justin Verlander and Doug Fister were better pitchers all year than Roy Halladay and Cliff Lee. All 4 were really, really good this year. If you have to pick one PAIR and not individuals in order, I'd take the Tiger pair is all. I think they're better. I just do. I'm a big Cleveland fan, and I saw what the Tigers became after that trade with Seattle. They were nothing special before Fister. Post Fister, I feel they played better than any team in baseball. Yeah, perhaps I'm overreacting to the fact that the last two months of the season Doug Fister was the best starting pitcher in baseball, but it is right now and the facts are, he was really, really good with Seattle too.

Doug Fister had a nice run this year but he is not better than Cliff Lee and I'm sure he would agree. He actually is a similar pitcher to Lee in many respects most notably the extremely low walk rate but he has a long way to go to get to Lee's level on a consistent basis. According to WAR ratings he was the 9th best pitcher in baseball this year but Lee was ranked 5th.

ateamstupid · #18 10-07-2011, 10:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by horseofcourse

When the Tigers acquired Fister they became the best team in baseball. Right now at this second, Verlander/Fister is a better 1-2 than Halladay/Lee and it's not even really close. The better team won that series without question. I don't know how he does it looking at him throw, but Fister was a great pitcher all year, he didn't get a heckuva lot of run support in Seattle.

I'll ignore the ridiculous Fister hagiography, and just ask, what the hell makes you say that? They got outscored 28-17.

slotdirt · #19 10-07-2011, 10:56 AM

Didn't the Red Sox have almost an even run differential during their September collapse despite winning like six games? I'm not sure counting cumulative score is necessarily indicative of, well, anything.

ateamstupid · #20 10-07-2011, 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slotdirt

Didn't the Red Sox have almost an even run differential during their September collapse despite winning like six games? I'm not sure counting cumulative score is necessarily indicative of, well, anything.

Really? Take a look at the MLB standings. They go almost exactly according to run differential. The top four in the NL were the four that made the playoffs. Three of the top four in the AL made the playoffs (Boston was third, Tampa was fifth). It's one of the best indicators of how good a team is.

But that's what a short series can do. It can propel the inferior team if they leave fewer runners on base and get slightly better starting pitching.

And the Red Sox were -23 in September.