Baseball Playoffs

slotdirt · #1 10-06-2011, 11:57 PM

That was some moxy.

horseofcourse · #2 10-07-2011, 01:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slotdirt

That was some moxy.

Told ya!! You had better starting pitching going into this series and through 5 games it showed. Fister came through tonight. That was actually brilliant by Benoit in the 7th pitching around Tex with the bases loaded. It worked.

ateamstupid · #3 10-07-2011, 01:16 AM

I'm not a fan of the Yanks, but it's pretty obvious who the better team in this series was.

But that's what makes the baseball playoffs great. If your team hits better with RISP and you get decent pitching out of your 1-2-3, you can win the World Series. I like the Tigers to beat the Rangers.

horseofcourse · #4 10-07-2011, 04:43 AM

When the Tigers acquired Fister they became the best team in baseball. Right now at this second, Verlander/Fister is a better 1-2 than Halladay/Lee and it's not even really close. The better team won that series without question. I don't know how he does it looking at him throw, but Fister was a great pitcher all year, he didn't get a heckuva lot of run support in Seattle.

Bigsmc · #5 10-07-2011, 05:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by horseofcourse

When the Tigers acquired Fister they became the best team in baseball. Right now at this second, Verlander/Fister is a better 1-2 than Halladay/Lee and it's not even really close. The better team won that series without question. I don't know how he does it looking at him throw, but Fister was a great pitcher all year, he didn't get a heckuva lot of run support in Seattle.

Antitrust32 in 5.....4......3......

slotdirt · #6 10-07-2011, 08:13 AM

Fister has basically pitched like a right handed version of Lee the last three months. But still, as much as I appreciate horsey's enthusiasm, I can't compare Verlander/Fister to Halladay/Lee. Maybe to Halladay/Lee Harvey Oswalt.

Antitrust32 · #7 10-07-2011, 08:43 AM

I'm counting on my horse tonight! I can't wait for game 5... this is what playoffs are all about!

Cannon Shell · #8 10-07-2011, 11:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slotdirt

Fister has basically pitched like a right handed version of Lee the last three months. But still, as much as I appreciate horsey's enthusiasm, I can't compare Verlander/Fister to Halladay/Lee. Maybe to Halladay/Lee Harvey Oswalt.

Didn't Fister give up 6 runs in 4 innings in the 2nd part of game 1? He pitched well last night but lets not forget it took 92 pitches to get through 5 innings.

MaTH716 · #9 10-07-2011, 09:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by horseofcourse

When the Tigers acquired Fister they became the best team in baseball. Right now at this second, Verlander/Fister is a better 1-2 than Halladay/Lee and it's not even really close. The better team won that series without question. I don't know how he does it looking at him throw, but Fister was a great pitcher all year, he didn't get a heckuva lot of run support in Seattle.

Wow. Nothing else to say about that except, Wow.

As far as the best team winning the series, not sure about that either. Just like Joey said, the Yanks had a ton of men in scoring position and did absolutely nothing with those opportunites.

Good luck Tiger fans going forward against the Rangers.

Also for the record, I thought Jim Leyland out-managed Girardi.

slotdirt · #10 10-07-2011, 12:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaTH716

Wow. Nothing else to say about that except, Wow.

As far as the best team winning the series, not sure about that either. Just like Joey said, the Yanks had a ton of men in scoring position and did absolutely nothing with those opportunites.

Good luck Tiger fans going forward against the Rangers.

Also for the record, I thought Jim Leyland out-managed Girardi.

I'm not sure Leyland outmanaged Girardi (that's like the blind leading the blind). He just got lucky. Miguel Cabrera somehow ended up with over 100 RBI's this year despite Leyland continually placing three guys ahead of him who don't ever end up on base. I realize Delmon Young had a nice enough series, but continuing to bat low-OBP guys like Jackson and Don Kelly early in a lineup isn't going to win a lot of games on the offensive end.

Girardi wasn't great last night, I'll give you that.

Cannon Shell · #11 10-07-2011, 11:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slotdirt

I'm not sure Leyland outmanaged Girardi (that's like the blind leading the blind). He just got lucky. Miguel Cabrera somehow ended up with over 100 RBI's this year despite Leyland continually placing three guys ahead of him who don't ever end up on base. I realize Delmon Young had a nice enough series, but continuing to bat low-OBP guys like Jackson and Don Kelly early in a lineup isn't going to win a lot of games on the offensive end.

Girardi wasn't great last night, I'll give you that.

You keep going back to the line up thing but who exactly is he going to bat ahead of Caberera? They don't exactly have a lot of good options.

horseofcourse · #12 10-07-2011, 07:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaTH716

Wow. Nothing else to say about that except, Wow.

In a league with a DH I think the numbers certainly indicate Justin Verlander and Doug Fister were better pitchers all year than Roy Halladay and Cliff Lee. All 4 were really, really good this year. If you have to pick one PAIR and not individuals in order, I'd take the Tiger pair is all. I think they're better. I just do. I'm a big Cleveland fan, and I saw what the Tigers became after that trade with Seattle. They were nothing special before Fister. Post Fister, I feel they played better than any team in baseball. Yeah, perhaps I'm overreacting to the fact that the last two months of the season Doug Fister was the best starting pitcher in baseball, but it is right now and the facts are, he was really, really good with Seattle too.

ateamstupid · #13 10-07-2011, 07:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by horseofcourse

In a league with a DH I think the numbers certainly indicate Justin Verlander and Doug Fister were better pitchers all year than Roy Halladay and Cliff Lee. All 4 were really, really good this year. If you have to pick one PAIR and not individuals in order, I'd take the Tiger pair is all. I think they're better. I just do. I'm a big Cleveland fan, and I saw what the Tigers became after that trade with Seattle. They were nothing special before Fister. Post Fister, I feel they played better than any team in baseball. Yeah, perhaps I'm overreacting to the fact that the last two months of the season Doug Fister was the best starting pitcher in baseball, but it is right now and the facts are, he was really, really good with Seattle too.

That makes sense. A starting pitcher who plays every six days was solely responsible for the team having a torrid August and September. You're right, start molding his bust for Cooperstown.

MaTH716 · #14 10-07-2011, 08:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by horseofcourse

In a league with a DH I think the numbers certainly indicate Justin Verlander and Doug Fister were better pitchers all year than Roy Halladay and Cliff Lee. All 4 were really, really good this year. If you have to pick one PAIR and not individuals in order, I'd take the Tiger pair is all. I think they're better. I just do. I'm a big Cleveland fan, and I saw what the Tigers became after that trade with Seattle. They were nothing special before Fister. Post Fister, I feel they played better than any team in baseball. Yeah, perhaps I'm overreacting to the fact that the last two months of the season Doug Fister was the best starting pitcher in baseball, but it is right now and the facts are, he was really, really good with Seattle too.

Halladay and Lee dominated the AL when they pitched there.
I'm sorry, I need to see more from Fister before I could put him in the same paragraph, let alone sentence with the other pitchers mentioned. I'm taking nothing away from the guy, he pitched well. But Joey is right, I just get the feeling that after a couple of times through the order, he will get pounded. The Yanks just did a bad job on getting the timely hit yesterday. He seemed to be up in the zone and that's usually a recipe for disaster.

Cannon Shell · #15 10-08-2011, 12:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by horseofcourse

In a league with a DH I think the numbers certainly indicate Justin Verlander and Doug Fister were better pitchers all year than Roy Halladay and Cliff Lee. All 4 were really, really good this year. If you have to pick one PAIR and not individuals in order, I'd take the Tiger pair is all. I think they're better. I just do. I'm a big Cleveland fan, and I saw what the Tigers became after that trade with Seattle. They were nothing special before Fister. Post Fister, I feel they played better than any team in baseball. Yeah, perhaps I'm overreacting to the fact that the last two months of the season Doug Fister was the best starting pitcher in baseball, but it is right now and the facts are, he was really, really good with Seattle too.

Doug Fister had a nice run this year but he is not better than Cliff Lee and I'm sure he would agree. He actually is a similar pitcher to Lee in many respects most notably the extremely low walk rate but he has a long way to go to get to Lee's level on a consistent basis. According to WAR ratings he was the 9th best pitcher in baseball this year but Lee was ranked 5th.

ateamstupid · #16 10-07-2011, 11:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by horseofcourse

When the Tigers acquired Fister they became the best team in baseball. Right now at this second, Verlander/Fister is a better 1-2 than Halladay/Lee and it's not even really close. The better team won that series without question. I don't know how he does it looking at him throw, but Fister was a great pitcher all year, he didn't get a heckuva lot of run support in Seattle.

I'll ignore the ridiculous Fister hagiography, and just ask, what the hell makes you say that? They got outscored 28-17.

slotdirt · #17 10-07-2011, 11:56 AM

Didn't the Red Sox have almost an even run differential during their September collapse despite winning like six games? I'm not sure counting cumulative score is necessarily indicative of, well, anything.

ateamstupid · #18 10-07-2011, 12:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slotdirt

Didn't the Red Sox have almost an even run differential during their September collapse despite winning like six games? I'm not sure counting cumulative score is necessarily indicative of, well, anything.

Really? Take a look at the MLB standings. They go almost exactly according to run differential. The top four in the NL were the four that made the playoffs. Three of the top four in the AL made the playoffs (Boston was third, Tampa was fifth). It's one of the best indicators of how good a team is.

But that's what a short series can do. It can propel the inferior team if they leave fewer runners on base and get slightly better starting pitching.

And the Red Sox were -23 in September.

horseofcourse · #19 10-07-2011, 06:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

I'll ignore the ridiculous Fister hagiography, and just ask, what the hell makes you say that? They got outscored 28-17.

Look at Fister's record and stats since the trade. His stats were really good before the trade too, but he was the best starting pitcher in baseball once he got to Detroit. Make of it what you will, it's a sample size of 10 starts, and for those 10 starts he was the best in the league. You pair that with Verlander, I stand by it. I saw it happen. They were malingering with cleveland all summer long, Fister came, game, set, match.

The Tigers won. Just like I will say Sunday Silence was a better horse than Easy Goer despite Easy Goer having run faster if you combine all 4 races, but Sunday Silence was 3-1 in those 4 races, it's pretty easy logic. I don't put much stock into the Yankees murdering the Tigers lesser relief pitchers in game 4, not much at all. Verlander's better than Sabathia, Fister's better than Nova...both of them all year long, that's pretty much why I state they're better.

ateamstupid · #20 10-07-2011, 07:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by horseofcourse

Look at Fister's record and stats since the trade. His stats were really good before the trade too, but he was the best starting pitcher in baseball once he got to Detroit. Make of it what you will, it's a sample size of 10 starts, and for those 10 starts he was the best in the league. You pair that with Verlander, I stand by it. I saw it happen. They were malingering with cleveland all summer long, Fister came, game, set, match.

Stop it. Scherzer was better than him in this series by a wide margin. Fister's a nice pitcher and had a good year, but he got rocked his second and third times through the order by the Yankees. That'll happen to him against any good lineup.