Wisconsin Governor Scott Walker

[wiphan]

[quote=Riot;758132]The Governor tried to sneak through alot of nasty stuff in his bill. I'm darn glad the Democrats held up the rushed-through passage of this bill, because much of the content has turned out to have zero to do with solving any budget deficit. Yes, I think that is indeed their civic duty, to protect their constituency.

QUOTE]

This to me says a lot about you and your beliefs. Whether you agree or disagree with the bill acting the way the democrats have done is just down right wrong. If the republicans give in it sets a really bad precedent. It is like when I tell my 3 yr old she can't have candy and then she throws a temper tantrum and I give in. Do you think she will do it again? We can not have law makers acting in this behavior any time a bill is presented that they do not agree with. That is what elections are for. Time to get back to work and do your job.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by wiphan

This to me says a lot about you and your beliefs.

Can you talk about politics objectively?

Whether you agree or disagree with the bill acting the way the democrats have done is just down right wrong.

I say what they did was right. They used a legal parlimentary procedure to block the ramming through of a "deficit repair" bill (even though the Wisconsin deficit isn't deep enough to formally trigger the need for a "repair bill") that contains far, far more than just deficit corrections.

Guess we'll just disagree.

We can not have law makers acting in this behavior any time a bill is presented that they do not agree with. That is what elections are for.

I missed your daily anger and self-rightous indignation over the past two years of Senate Republicans filibustering just about everything

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Riot

Can you talk about politics objectively?



I say what they did was right. They used a legal parlimentary procedure to block the ramming through of a "deficit repair" bill (even though the Wisconsin deficit isn't deep enough to formally trigger the need for a "repair bill") that contains far, far more than just deficit corrections.

Guess we'll just disagree.



I missed your daily anger and self-rightous indignation over the past two years of Senate Republicans filibustering just about everything

did you seriously just ask that question??? riot, you have unabashedly and unashamedly admitted your love for the democratic party; that you think they're the cure for what ails us as a country...you back their play on any and every issue that comes down the pike --and then you post that.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Danzig

did you seriously just ask that question???

Absolutely. When Wiphan and I are talking about what the Dems are doing in Wisconsin, and whether we agree or not with their actions, what place does Wiphan interjecting the personally prejudiced and assumptive, "This to me says a lot about you and your beliefs" have in that?

That just proves Wiphan has preconceived prejudices that run deep. Wiphan doesn't have frigging clue what supporting the Democrats "means about me and my beliefs". Sadly. What it means is only that I support the Democratic action, for the reason I gave. Nothing more or less.

One is talking about the other poster. One is talking about the subject.

Then you go on with the following, which has nothing at all to do with the above, really, and thus is confusing to me why you said it:

riot, you have unabashedly and unashamedly admitted your love for the democratic party; that you think they're the cure for what ails us as a country...you back their play on any and every issue that comes down the pike --and then you post that.

At least you could be accurate. No, I have not posted my "love" of the Democratic party, I have posted my complete and utter disappointment with the failures of the Republican party. Not the same thing. There is alot I am not comfortable with within the most progressive wing of the Democratic part (and I've said as much here, which appears to be completely ignored) - why I never voted for a Democrat on a national level before Obama.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Riot

Absolutely. When Wiphan and I are talking about what the Dems are doing in Wisconsin, and whether we agree or not with their actions, what place does Wiphan interjecting the personally prejudiced and assumptive, "This to me says a lot about you and your beliefs" have in that?

That just proves Wiphan has preconceived prejudices that run deep. Wiphan doesn't have frigging clue what supporting the Democrats "means about me and my beliefs". Sadly. What it means is only that I support the Democratic action, for the reason I gave. Nothing more or less.

One is talking about the other poster. One is talking about the subject.

Then you go on with the following, which has nothing at all to do with the above, really, and thus is confusing to me why you said it:



At least you could be accurate. No, I have not posted my "love" of the Democratic party, I have posted my complete and utter disappointment with the failures of the Republican party. Not the same thing. There is alot I am not comfortable with within the most progressive wing of the Democratic part (and I've said as much here, which appears to be completely ignored) - why I never voted for a Democrat on a national level before Obama.

it tells me he knows you have a bias. and if you're uncomfortable with some of their actions, yours posts don't show it. if anyone wishes to know the stance of the dems on a subject, they need look no further than your posts. you aren't objective at all. and you may be a recent 'convert' to the cause, but it's still your cause.

[Riot]

[quote]

Originally Posted by Danzig

it tells me he knows you have a bias.

Yes: I am speaking in favor of the Democratic side, and Wiphan is speaking in favor of the Republican side.

Neither of which has anything to do with explaining why Wiphan feels the need to interject the personal perjorative, "This to me says a lot about you and your beliefs"

It's nice that you are trying to argue in support of Wiphans' assumptive prejudices, but what I said was that going there is uncalled for.

Why do people here always have to interject and make it personal about the other posters, when the discussion is about the pluses or minuses and actions of the politicans?

[Danzig]

[quote=Riot;759120]

Yes: I am speaking in favor of the Democratic side, and Wiphan is speaking in favor of the Republican side.

Neither of which has anything to do with explaining why Wiphan feels the need to interject the personal perjorative, "This to me says a lot about you and your beliefs"

It's nice that you are trying to argue in support of Wiphans' assumptive prejudices, but what I said was that going there is uncalled for.

Why do people here always have to interject and make it personal about the other posters, when the discussion is about the pluses or minuses and actions of the politicans?

i didn't say it was uncalled for. i found your remark ironic, and posted as such. it was nothing personal, the only thing personal is that you posted it, and i asked if you really meant it. had wiphan typed it to you, i'd have asked him instead.
i don't recall backing up anyone's assertions in this thread. i have said the whole thing is a mess and a shame, and i meant that. that state isn't being helped by the actions of both the exec and ledge. the govt is no dictator, he has no business acting like one. the unions have, imo, blown this out of proportion. there are things that need cutting; wisconsin would be best served if it's 'leaders' all sat down and hashed all this out.
meanwhile, it seems to be all about who is winning the media war.

[wiphan]

Originally Posted by Riot

Can you talk about politics objectively?



I say what they did was right. They used a legal parlimentary procedure to block the ramming through of a "deficit repair" bill (even though the Wisconsin deficit isn't deep enough to formally trigger the need for a "repair bill") that contains far, far more than just deficit corrections.

Guess we'll just disagree.



I missed your daily anger and self-rightous indignation over the past two years of Senate Republicans filibustering just about everything

So you consider filibustering the same as the actions the Senate Democrats in WI have taken? Fleeing the state, not showing up for your job, and not representing your constituents is the same as a filibuster? So every time a party disagrees with another they should just flee to Canada or in this case IL until the other party gives in? They should hold the state or the country hostage and not allow business to be conducted until they get their way. I do not see how that is considered democracy, but what do I know I didn't consult twitter or wikipedia

[Riot]

Originally Posted by wiphan

So you consider filibustering the same as the actions the Senate Democrats in WI have taken?

I consider both legal parlimentary procedures that were chosen and used.

I didn't like when the GOP did it in the Senate, and you don't like it when the state senate Democrats are doing it here.

Fleeing the state, not showing up for your job, and not representing your constituents is the same as a filibuster?

They most certainly didn't "flee their job", or "not represent their constituents", they are talking to constituents and staff daily, they are quite available to the other Senate members and the Governor (who still refuses to take their calls)

BTW, who is not "doing their job", when the public overwhelmingly is telling Walker they don't want union-busting, the Dems are trying to negotiate, a couple of the Senate Republicans are trying to negotiate, and Walker is standing still refusing to meet, refusing to take phone calls, saying he refuses to change his stance, and he is even caught on that phone call, saying he lied to the Democrats, saying he'd trick them into thinking he'd negotiate to get them back but then wouldn't?

I do not see how that is considered democracy, but what do I know I didn't consult twitter or wikipedia

Okay, you have to keep it personal. You can't talk about the politics objectively. So, yes, poor little unknowledgable victim you, poor little unknowledgable victim you. Is that what you want to hear? What does that have to do with anything? You don't consider what the Dems are doing democracy, stand by your opinion. Don't try to pawn it off on me being mean to poor little victim you.

[wiphan]

Originally Posted by Riot

I consider both legal parlimentary procedures that were chosen and used.

I didn't like when the GOP did it in the Senate, and you don't like it when the state senate Democrats are doing it here.



They most certainly didn't "flee their job", or "not represent their constituents", they are talking to constituents and staff daily, they are quite available to the other Senate members and the Governor (who still refuses to take their calls)

BTW, who is not "doing their job", when the public overwhelmingly is telling Walker they don't want union-busting, the Dems are trying to negotiate, a couple of the Senate Republicans are trying to negotiate, and Walker is standing still refusing to meet, refusing to take phone calls, saying he refuses to change his stance, and he is even caught on that phone call, saying he lied to the Democrats, saying he'd trick them into thinking he'd negotiate to get them back but then wouldn't?



Okay, you have to keep it personal. You can't talk about the politics objectively. So, yes, poor little unknowledgable victim you, poor little unknowledgable victim you. Is that what you want to hear? What does that have to do with anything? You don't consider what the Dems are doing democracy, stand by your opinion. Don't try to pawn it off on me being mean to poor little victim you.

you see them as doing their job, while I see the democrats acting in childish/terrorist behavior. Totally difference of opinion, which I think would set a dangerous precedent if they suceed. I do not see how this is democracy. If the tables were turned the republicans would be burned at the stake in media, whereas the democrats are seen as standing up for the people. Elections are won by majority opinion and the legislature should represent the majority. You will quote bias media polls, but the truth is WI voters voted for Walker and the republicans to take over. You have to let them do their job. I am just pointing out where your so called facts usually come from. You use the liberal media, papers, etc to showcase your facts, when I gave you a summary part of the bill on the public utilities you dismissed it. see http://legis.wisconsin.gov/JR1SB-11.pdf look at the summary and your past posts. Read the bill and stop reading Wikipedia, huffington, MSNBC, etc.

[wiphan]

March 7, 2011

Sen. Mark Miller

Parts Unknown, IL

Dear Senator Miller,

Thank you for your hand-delivered letter with an offer to meet, in Illinois, about the business and future direction of Wisconsin.

Let’s set aside how bizarre that is for a moment.

As you know, this legislation is designed to finally balance the state budget, prevent layoffs and create jobs in the real world. There are hundreds of thousands of unemployed or underemployed Wisconsinites, and at least 1,500 more whose jobs are in the balance because of your media stunt. We all deserve better than this.

In the meantime, members of your caucus have been meeting with the governor’s staff, talking to the media, trying to find a way back to Madison, and contradicting your message in public. In case you don’t remember, you were present yourself at one of those meetings with the governor’s staff. Your grasp of reality, and control of your caucus as minority leader, continues to amaze me.

As you know, your opportunity to compromise and amend the bill was on the floor of the state Senate. As you know, you forfeited that right and opportunity when you decided to flee the state instead of doing your job.

Your stubbornness in trying to ignore the last election and protect the broken status quo is truly shameful. While we wait for you and your colleagues to finally show up, Senate Republicans continue to stand ready to do the job we were elected to do, here in Wisconsin. I hope you are enjoying your vacation, and your vacation from reality.

Sincerely,

Scott Fitzgerald

Senate Majority Leader

CC: Governor Scott Walker

[Riot]

Yeah, Fitzgerald sounds like a real ass - especially when, after he went on TV and "named names" yesterday, he was publicly accused of outright lying by the folks whose names he dropped.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by wiphan

you see them as doing their job, while I see the democrats acting in childish/terrorist behavior. Totally difference of opinion, which I think would set a dangerous precedent if they suceed. I do not see how this is democracy. If the tables were turned the republicans would be burned at the stake in media, whereas the democrats are seen as standing up for the people. Elections are won by majority opinion and the legislature should represent the majority. You will quote bias media polls, but the truth is WI voters voted for Walker and the republicans to take over. You have to let them do their job. I am just pointing out where your so called facts usually come from. You use the liberal media, papers, etc to showcase your facts, when I gave you a summary part of the bill on the public utilities you dismissed it. see http://legis.wisconsin.gov/JR1SB-11.pdf look at the summary and your past posts. Read the bill and stop reading Wikipedia, huffington, MSNBC, etc.

You really have some bizzaro prejudices, assumptions and ideas that are not true. You'd probably do better dropping everything you "think" you know about where I get information about Wisconsin, and sticking to reality.

"Biased media polls"? You mean every poll taken in Wisconsin this past week, including the most right-wing biased conservative ones? You just don't like what those polls are now showing.

Elections elect a governor, but they also elect state legislatures, where the different reps represent the concerns of the locals from their areas. There is no "taking over" in the legislature. Judging by the actions of your fellow citizens, it's clear that Walker wasn't elected dictator as he mistakenly believes, he's not going to get away with major changes that he didn't campaign upon and tried to sneak through, and there is a great deal of buyer's remorse. Such is democracy.

[Riot]

As Wiphan is so proud of the Republican response, might as well post the original letter.

Dear Governor Walker and Senator Fitzgerald:

Over the past several weeks we have witnessed an unprecedented public debate in Wisconsin over the value of public workers and the importance of collective bargaining rights. I write today to offer to meet, in-person, as soon as possible to resume discussions on how we reach a bipartisan solution to our differences on January 2011 Special Session Senate and Assembly Bill 11.

The working people of Wisconsin are deeply concerned about what the future holds for their families, and for the great state they call home. Now more than ever they are counting on us as leaders to work together to resolve our differences to move our state forward.

Since the bill's introduction, public workers have come forward to offer economic concessions and Democrats have offered a number of proposals to try to reach a bipartisan resolution.

I assure you that Democratic State Senators, despite our differences and the vigorous debate we have had, remain ready and willing to find a reasonable compromise. To that end, I would ask that you or your authorized representatives agree to meet with us near the Wisconsin-Illinois border to formally resume serious discussions
as soon as possible.

The people of Wisconsin are overwhelmingly supportive of us reaching a bipartisan, negotiated compromise. Senate Democrats stand ready to do just that, we ask that you do the same.

[wiphan]

Originally Posted by Riot

You really have some bizzaro prejudices, assumptions and ideas that are not true. You'd probably do better dropping everything you "think" you know about where I get information about Wisconsin, and sticking to reality.

"Biased media polls"? You mean every poll taken in Wisconsin this past week, including the most right-wing biased conservative ones? You just don't like what those polls are now showing.

Elections elect a governor, but they also elect state legislatures, where the different reps represent the concerns of the locals from their areas. There is no "taking over" in the legislature. Judging by the actions of your fellow citizens, it's clear that Walker wasn't elected dictator as he mistakenly believes, he's not going to get away with major changes that he didn't campaign upon and tried to sneak through, and there is a great deal of buyer's remorse. Such is democracy.

In case you forgot I actually live in WI and interact with the public citizens of WI on a daily basis and there is plenty of support for walker and outrage against the dems that the media refuses to cover. More importantly Go UWM panthers!