Wisconsin Governor Scott Walker

[wiphan]

Originally Posted by Riot

As I've said, I think raising taxes on the 2/3 of Wisconsin companies that currently pay zero taxes would be a good idea. Yes, they can pay a small amount. Those tax loopholes enabling them to pay no tax can be closed. No, I did not say to raise other taxes, especially personal taxes on citizens.

If you raise taxes on corporations in today's economy either they will lay off employees to offset expenses or move their company to a state that will offer tax incentives to do business in their state. You just don't get it!

Then why are you eagerly supporting your Governor decreasing the income of low to middle-income state employees by 8% ! That's a huge, lifestyle-changing percentage. Just because it's not being called a "tax" ???

I just met with a physical education teacher who makes a salary of $104,000 annually to teach gym in a middle school. That does not include the fact that he doesn't pay medical insurance at all or contribute towards his pension. Do you think that is a good use of government $? If we really cared about education we would compensate teachers that work hard and are good at their job instead of protecting the incompetent ones. But again it is all about the kids

That makes no sense to me. If Wisconsinites are tired of it, as you say, why are they, and you, supporting the governor doing it? Taking money from the citizens?

Remember public employees are paid by the citizens of the state so in essence we are their employer. You are not taking from the citizens you are giving power back to the employer and not the employee. FDR got it. Why can't you?

[Riot]

Originally Posted by wiphan

Remember public employees are paid by the citizens of the state so in essence we are their employer. You are not taking from the citizens you are giving power back to the employer and not the employee. FDR got it. Why can't you?

Yes, you are an employer. If you want good people, to hire or to stay, you'll have to treat them better than any other possible employer. "Giving power back"??? What are you talking about? "You've" had collective bargaining rights forever. It's silly to "blame unions", when every single contract they have. every penny that is spent, was bargained and signed off upon by the State. Collective bargaining hasn't ruined your state budget.

[wiphan]

Originally Posted by Riot

Yes, you are an employer. If you want good people, to hire or to stay, you'll have to treat them better than any other possible employer. "Giving power back"??? What are you talking about? "You've" had collective bargaining rights forever. It's silly to "blame unions", when every single contract they have. every penny that is spent, was bargained and signed off upon by the State. Collective bargaining hasn't ruined your state budget.

Why don't you look into a program that is called Teacher Ameritas that exists in numerous school districts in WI. I know it exists in Green Bay. Just so you know with this program retired teachers can receive 1/3rd of their annual salary as long as they work a total of 10 days. That is correct 10 days of work for 1/3rd of your pay. So if you are a teacher making $90k you get $30k for 10 days of work. $3k a day isn't too bad. Great use of tax payer money. Also explain to me how we need to pay someone over $100k plus $30k in annual benefits to teach gym to middle school kids? But forgive me collective bargaining by teachers union who fund the democrats has nothing to do with budget problems. Wake up

[Riot]

Originally Posted by wiphan

Wake up

Please point out, in your state budget over the past five years, where public employee pensions and health benefits have "broken" your state budget. How these are the greatest deficit causers.

I'd like to know what actual percentages of your state budget these items have been.

And of course, you've been politically active and furious about this over the past many years, demonstrating against it, I assume? You've been angry and vocally against your state government people, the ones that do the collective bargaining, that have given these perks away?

I'm tired of this new fad of demonizing teachers, just so the GOP can break the unions to try and break Democratic votes and contributions. It's absurd kabuki theatre. Get angry about your state revenue being constantly decreased, over the past 20 years by tax giveaways to corporations. A tax giveaway was about the first thing your new GOP governor did, too. And no anger from you over that.

[wiphan]

Originally Posted by Riot

Please point out, in your state budget over the past five years, where public employee pensions and health benefits have "broken" your state budget. How these are the greatest deficit causers.

I'd like to know what actual percentages of your state budget these items have been.

And of course, you've been politically active and furious about this over the past many years, demonstrating against it, I assume? You've been angry and vocally against your state government people, the ones that do the collective bargaining, that have given these perks away?

I'm tired of this new fad of demonizing teachers, just so the GOP can break the unions to try and break Democratic votes and contributions. It's absurd kabuki theatre. Get angry about your state revenue being constantly decreased, over the past 20 years by tax giveaways to corporations. A tax giveaway was about the first thing your new GOP governor did, too. And no anger from you over that.

Do you not think public unions have any effect on the budget issues in the state now and in the future (i.e. future pension pay outs, ridiculous union bargained benefits, monopolized health insurance, etc.) ? Let's take a look at the auto industry in the US. Do you think the unions had any effect on the stability, sustainability and profitability of the US auto companies?

[Riot]

Originally Posted by wiphan

Do you not think public unions have any effect on the budget issues in the state now and in the future

Yes, I do. However, I think that is a very small percentage of the budget. Too small to blame the unions for massive budget problems, and as a real reason for the union-busting. So what is that percentage?

Where is the financial proof that Walker's union-busting is based upon real financial numbers? He hasn't shown any yet.

What we "think" doesn't really matter. It's not a matter of opinion. What "is", does matter. This should be readily and easily proven by black and white numbers. Where are they?

Either have any of the other Republican governors, who were told by the Koch Brothers, owners of the Republican Governors Association and huge donators to getting these GOP Governors elected, that they must bust the unions before the 2012 election, in order to try and bust Democratic donors and votes. The other governors have done a complete 180 on their plans after the Walker fiasco regarding their union busting (see Indiana and New Jersey)

Let's take a look at the auto industry in the US. Do you think the unions had any effect on the stability, sustainability and profitability of the US auto companies?

Yes, I do. The auto industries bargained terrific benefits, then they made bad cars and terrible business decisions, so they could no longer afford to pay for what they promised the unions.

But the UAW union isn't the Wisconsin teachers, librarian, prison, fire and police unions.

So when we talk about Wisconsin, lets talk about the situation there, not somewhere else where the only thing in common is the word "union".

[SOREHOOF]

Originally Posted by Riot

Yes, I do. The auto industries bargained terrific benefits, then they made bad cars and terrible business decisions, so they could no longer afford to pay for what they promised the unions.

But the UAW union isn't the Wisconsin teachers, librarian, prison, fire and police unions.

They bargained benefits that played a role in bankrupting the auto cos. They should have been allowed to go down. The UAW bit off the hand that feeds, but Obama was right there to save them with our $$. Screwing stock and bond holders. There is a huge difference between public and private sector unions. At least until the private sector unions need taxpayer $$ to survive.

[SOREHOOF]

Originally Posted by wiphan

Do you not think public unions have any effect on the budget issues in the state now and in the future (i.e. future pension pay outs, ridiculous union bargained benefits, monopolized health insurance, etc.) ? Let's take a look at the auto industry in the US. Do you think the unions had any effect on the stability, sustainability and profitability of the US auto companies?

The UAW ended up owning the auto companies with a little help from Obama to sidestep legal bankruptsy proceedings.