Valiant loss puts Zenyatta's prowess in perspective

[CSC]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

I don't know that it would be the case if it was tried more often here. The older horses the past decade with a few notable exceptions have been pretty awful. RA last year was simply better than the 3 yo colts and Z was probably better than the colts this year. You would have hoped that Zenyatta would have taken more chances against colts. Perhaps after her presumed success and the success of RA that more people would try to beat them with really good fillies. Of course if they vote Zenyatta horse of the year after cupcake city and a loss then that would pretty much give the connections of the next great filly precedent to not try to compete with the best horses.

I'm sure it is tried more often, but I really think grass racing is the equalizer, all these great fillies have one thing in common, turn of foot. I was just thinking, there are not too many fillies that have dominated males, infact I can't think of one, on dirt anyway.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by CSC

I'm sure it is tried more often, but I really think grass racing is the equalizer, all these great fillies have one thing in common, turn of foot. I was just thinking, there are not too many fillies that have dominated males, infact I can't think of one, on dirt anyway.

There have been very few American turf mares to beat boys lately on the grass than there has been dirt mares. The fact that the connections of top horses seem to have an aversion to competition won't help. I would have loved to see Zenyatta on the grass (real grass I mean). Hard to believe she wouldnt have been one of the few american horses of the last 30 or so years that may have been good enough with enough stamina to have a shot in the Melbourne Cup

[CSC]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

There have been very few American turf mares to beat boys lately on the grass than there has been dirt mares. The fact that the connections of top horses seem to have an aversion to competition won't help. I would have loved to see Zenyatta on the grass (real grass I mean). Hard to believe she wouldnt have been one of the few american horses of the last 30 or so years that may have been good enough with enough stamina to have a shot in the Melbourne Cup

Officially she isn't retired yet, now the Matriarch was shortened to 8 furlongs so that is out, Japan Cup? I would love to see it, but we know this isn't happening.

[tector]

The whole SoCal plastic track experiment is indeed what complicates things here. If she'd gone 19 for 19 on dirt, then you'd just have to upgrade her. Even the arguments about her not shipping would have been more muted. I have no problems putting her up with the great F&Ms of all time--she belongs in that discussion. But greatest horses of all time? Please. In my race-watching lifetime, just sticking to classic distances on dirt, there are only two horses for sure that I can put on that list--Secretariat and Spectacular Bid. The rest are either a tier below or need a hell of an argument in their favor. And of those (Slew, Affirmed, Ghostzapper, Easy Goer, Sunday Silence, Cigar, etc.), they would routine destroy Zenyatta the way most races shape up. Even horses like Mineshaft or Best Pal would be too much. Her running style just couldn't cut against such types on dirt most of the time.

I will say this--since plastic is on the way out at SA, and HOL is not long for this world, she is likely to be--forever--the great synthetic horse of all-time, of any sex.