Fleur de Lis and Foster online?

[Sightseek]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

She couldnt have done anything more than what she did today. I agree. But, Joey, do you really sincerely believe that Jessica is Back is a "good horse"? She is an allowance/stakes also ran that could just have easily been running for a tag yesterday.

This was a joke of a field and if Zenyatta beat this same field tomorrow at hollywood park, many would be asking to put an asterisk by the win.

I don't think there is any evidence that says this is the "real rachel" and the one that raced a month ago against Unrivaled belle was some type of impostor. She is the same filly. Its what was running behind her today that changed.

I think the difference is that Zenyatta is at the top of her game and therefore could be in races like the Californian or pointed to the Gold Cup, Goodwood etc. and that is why most people are unsatisfied with her schedule.

I think most people who question her campaign do so out of a respect of Zenyatta's ability. She could be dominating races like the Grade 1s for males all year. At this point, I would take a shot against the Rail Trips and Blames of the equine world before I would run against the fillies and risk Zenyatta getting a terrible trip and one of the other fillies getting a dream trip and beating her.

[CSC]

Originally Posted by Sightseek

I think the difference is that Zenyatta is at the top of her game and therefore could be in races like the Californian or pointed to the Gold Cup, Goodwood etc. and that is why most people are unsatisfied with her schedule.

I think most people who question her campaign do so out of a respect of Zenyatta's ability. She could be dominating races like the Grade 1s for males all year. At this point, I would take a shot against the Rail Trips and Blames of the equine world before I would run against the fillies and risk Zenyatta getting a terrible trip and one of the other fillies getting a dream trip and beating her.

If St. Trinians was in the Californian yesterday, she would have been the second choice and most likely the main opposition for Rail Trip. She shouldn't be confused with a Distinctive Dixie or Jessica is Back. This is a better challenge than most give it credit for, 9 lbs and all.

[Travis Stone]

There is no reason why Zenyatta should not be targeting the Hollywood Gold Cup. Ten furlongs, a racetrack she loves... no reason to not be there.

[CSC]

Originally Posted by Travis Stone

There is no reason why Zenyatta should not be targeting the Hollywood Gold Cup. Ten furlongs, a racetrack she loves... no reason to not be there.

I have no problem with this, however she most likely has only 3 races left in her career after today. If this is the case they need a filler late in the summer before the BC, which means there will be one more race on the calendar. Just which race they choose will be the $1000 dollar question, if it's N.Y I'll take that over the HWGC.

[2Hot4TV]

Originally Posted by Travis Stone

There is no reason why Zenyatta should not be targeting the Hollywood Gold Cup. Ten furlongs, a racetrack she loves... no reason to not be there.

I totally agree.

I still think she should of taken on the Met Mile at one turn.

[Sightseek]

Originally Posted by CSC

If St. Trinians was in the Californian yesterday, she would have been better opposition than anyone else in that field against Rail Trip. She's not a Distinctive Dixie or Jessica is Back.

OH MY GOD.

Do you ever stop?

What does Distinctive Dixie or Jessica is Back have to do with Zenyatta's ability to handle the Californian field and possible Gold Cup, Goodwood fields? Only you can miss what is actually a compliment of Zenyatta's ability and think it somehow has to do with Rachel.

[CSC]

Originally Posted by Sightseek

OH MY GOD.

Do you ever stop?

What does Distinctive Dixie or Jessica is Back have to do with Zenyatta's ability to handle the Californian field and possible Gold Cup, Goodwood fields? Only you can miss what is actually a compliment of Zenyatta's ability and think it somehow has to do with Rachel.

I think you misunderstood me, what I am saying is St. Trinians is not much worst than Rail Trip(who I predict will fall back to earth as the yr progresses). Making today's race not the walkover it is portrayed to be. That's all, that's what I keep hearing here, people want her challenged. well this isn't the Foster but it isn't like last year's Vanity either. Setting the record straight.

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by Sightseek

I think the difference is that Zenyatta is at the top of her game and therefore could be in races like the Californian or pointed to the Gold Cup, Goodwood etc. and that is why most people are unsatisfied with her schedule.

I think most people who question her campaign do so out of a respect of Zenyatta's ability. She could be dominating races like the Grade 1s for males all year. At this point, I would take a shot against the Rail Trips and Blames of the equine world before I would run against the fillies and risk Zenyatta getting a terrible trip and one of the other fillies getting a dream trip and beating her.

I agree with everything you say. I think Zenyatta's connections could certainly have been more adventurous in their campaign. At the same time, tomorrow's race isn't a walkover. She is spotting serious weight to a short field of accomplished horses. As far as taking a shot against Rail Trip though, does that really do any good? Even beating Blame yesterday would have hardly made the necessary statement and I think Blame is the best older male running right now besides Quality Road. Winning at Saratoga or Belmont in late summer and early fall are the only way outside of the BC to make any real noise.

[kgar311]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

I agree with everything you say. I think Zenyatta's connections could certainly have been more adventurous in their campaign. At the same time, tomorrow's race isn't a walkover. She is spotting serious weight to a short field of accomplished horses. As far as taking a shot against Rail Trip though, does that really do any good? Even beating Blame yesterday would have hardly made the necessary statement and I think Blame is the best older male running right now besides Quality Road. Winning at Saratoga or Belmont in late summer and early fall are the only way outside of the BC to make any real noise.

You really think that Zen beating the best older males on synthetics or even more so traveling across the country and beating the best older males on conventional dirt at Churchill Downs would have hardly made a statement??? Seriously??? So your saying her winning either race would of been ho hum. I suggest you rethink that ridiculous comment. It EXACTLY what she needs to do to start making Necessary Statements if they want her to win HOY.

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by kgar311

You really think that Zen beating the best older males on synthetics or even more so traveling across the country and beating the best older males on conventional dirt at Churchill Downs would have hardly made a statement??? Seriously??? So your saying her winning either race would of been ho hum. I suggest you rethink that ridiculous comment. It EXACTLY what she needs to do to start making Necessary Statements if they want her to win HOY.

LOL She won the damn breeders cup classic last year and that wasnt enough was it? And I could probably come up with at least 100 posts from this board that downplayed that as if it wasnt that big of a deal. So now you are telling me that Im making ridiculous statements because I don't think beating Rail Trip on synthetic or Blame in the month of June would have enough bite to win an eclipse. Okay then.

Start Making nessecary statements? LOL She has got 3 races left tops including today. She is a 6 year old mare that was supposed to have already been retired. She makes a prep in the fall and then the bc. If she wins back to back BC's, regardless of whatever else happens, are you saying she wouldnt win HOY? And that being the case, why bother with these nonsense "statements" that have no real historical significance?

[ateamstupid]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

If she wins back to back BC's, regardless of whatever else happens, are you saying she wouldnt win HOY?

Not if Quality Road keeps going the way he is. As Travis said, it's Horse of the Year, not Horse of the Race.

As for Jessica Is Back vs. St Trinians, I don't think either is very good, but seeing the Zenlovers hedging and suddenly hyping up ST like she's Congaree is hilarious.

As for Rachel's race, I just simply disagree that yesterday's field was significantly weaker than the La Troienne or the NOL were. So yeah, winning by 10 1/2 and running faster than the Foster (heh) is more impressive to me than losing to the two mediocrities she had lost to this year. You have a solid point that we won't know truly if she still has it until she has a stiffer challenge, but to say that the FDL wasn't a step forward for her is crazy IMO.

[parsixfarms]

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

As for Jessica Is Back vs. St Trinians, I don't think either is very good, but seeing the Zenlovers hedging and suddenly hyping up ST like she's Congaree is hilarious.

I haven't seen anyone on this thread compare St. Trinians to Congaree or any other top flight handicap horse. That being said, to equate beating the Wolfson-trained Jessica Is Back on non-Calder dirt to beating St. Trinians on synthetics is a huge stretch. After all, St. Trinians defeated Life Is Sweet over the same Pro-ride surface on which Life Is Sweet won the BC Distaff, and that performance made her the 3-1 favorite in the Big 'Cap. (If do I recall correctly, however, DrugS was on here extolling the virtues of St. Trinians last winter and fall as a synthetic freak that Zenyatta should legitimately fear.)

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by parsixfarms

I haven't seen anyone on this thread compare St. Trinians to Congaree or any other top flight handicap horse. That being said, to equate beating the Wolfson-trained Jessica Is Back on non-Calder dirt to beating St. Trinians on synthetics is a huge stretch. After all, St. Trinians defeated Life Is Sweet over the same Pro-ride surface on which Life Is Sweet won the BC Distaff, and that performance made her the 3-1 favorite in the Big 'Cap. (If do I recall correctly, however, DrugS was on here extolling the virtues of St. Trinians last winter and fall as a synthetic freak that Zenyatta should legitimately fear.)

Beating either of those horses is not an accomplishment that one should cherish.

[kgar311]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

LOL She won the damn breeders cup classic last year and that wasnt enough was it? And I could probably come up with at least 100 posts from this board that downplayed that as if it wasnt that big of a deal. So now you are telling me that Im making ridiculous statements because I don't think beating Rail Trip on synthetic or Blame in the month of June would have enough bite to win an eclipse. Okay then.

Start Making nessecary statements? LOL She has got 3 races left tops including today. She is a 6 year old mare that was supposed to have already been retired. She makes a prep in the fall and then the bc. If she wins back to back BC's, regardless of whatever else happens, are you saying she wouldnt win HOY? And that being the case, why bother with these nonsense "statements" that have no real historical significance?

As far as I'm concerned zenyatta is not even in discussions for HOY at this point, what has she done do deserve it so far?? Nothing. She better start making any statement she can at this point. Another meatball schedule is not doing her any favors up till now. And another thing she is not even the front runner coming out of Cali right now for HOY, Rail Trip is ahead of her currently imo

[dean smith]

Originally Posted by kgar311

As far as I'm concerned zenyatta is not even in discussions for HOY at this point, what has she done do deserve it so far?? Nothing. She better start making any statement she can at this point. Another meatball schedule is not doing her any favors up till now. And another thing she is not even the front runner coming out of Cali right now for HOY, Rail Trip is ahead of her currently imo

If Zenyatta does nothing but beat fields full of miniature ponies at county fairs the rest of the year and remains undefeated, they will give her HOY for lifetime achievement... or as an apology for the previous two years. Believe it.

[hockey2315]

Originally Posted by dean smith

If Zenyatta does nothing but beat fields full of miniature ponies at county fairs the rest of the year and remains undefeated, they will give her HOY for lifetime achievement... or as an apology for the previous two years. Believe it.

This is very wrong.

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

I agree with everything you say. I think Zenyatta's connections could certainly have been more adventurous in their campaign. At the same time, tomorrow's race isn't a walkover. She is spotting serious weight to a short field of accomplished horses. As far as taking a shot against Rail Trip though, does that really do any good? Even beating Blame yesterday would have hardly made the necessary statement and I think Blame is the best older male running right now besides Quality Road. Winning at Saratoga or Belmont in late summer and early fall are the only way outside of the BC to make any real noise.

really my love?? Of course going in the Cali instead of the Vanity would have done tons of good. People might have actually gained some respect for the connections.. and Z could have proved a ton.