How many top-flight deep closers …

[brianwspencer]

It is remarkable.

But don't get too ahead of yourself. When she "separates" herself from those HOF runners, it will be no more than the separation between numbers.

Seeing 17-16 in a row is not going to make anyone all of the sudden think that she's actually "separated" herself from Cigar in any meaningful way, because she'd need to get herself somewhere close to him first. What he did, where he traveled, and who he beat during his run makes Zenyatta's streak look almost downright pitiful.

[10 pnt move up]

Originally Posted by brianwspencer

It is remarkable.

But don't get too ahead of yourself. When she "separates" herself from those HOF runners, it will be no more than the separation between numbers.

Seeing 17-16 in a row is not going to make anyone all of the sudden think that she's actually "separated" herself from Cigar in any meaningful way, because she'd need to get herself somewhere close to him first. What he did, where he traveled, and who he beat during his run makes Zenyatta's streak look almost downright pitiful.

Holy Bull broke down, but who exactly was great that Cigar beat?

[Gaining Ground]

Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up

Holy Bull broke down, but who exactly was great that Cigar beat?

a better question might be who beat better horses. the answer is obvious.

[10 pnt move up]

Originally Posted by Gaining Ground

a better question might be who beat better horses. the answer is obvious.

in general most horses of 2010 suck in comparison to 1993-94, at least in the male division where they are carted off after 6 starts.

[Gaining Ground]

Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up

in general most horses of 2010 suck in comparison to 1993-94, at least in the male division where they are carted off after 6 starts.

so cigar beat better?

[10 pnt move up]

Originally Posted by Gaining Ground

so cigar beat better?

of course

[10 pnt move up]

Originally Posted by HomerS

Not sure would categorize Cigar as a deep closer. Not getting into the greatness part just talking running style.

Cigar was a presser/stalker, I cant remember him too far back in any of his races.

[Port Conway Lane]

Originally Posted by HomerS

Not sure would categorize Cigar as a deep closer. Not getting into the greatness part just talking running style.

Good point. True Deep closers are very rare in dirt racing so there are very few top flight horses to compare her to. Victory Gallop comes to mind as a horse who fired nearly every time.

Zenyatta's first Apple Blossom win was very impressive but she hasn't faced top horses on dirt frequently enough to really make a fair comparison to any dirt closer. Synthetic tracks have probably given her an edge but her durability and trainer's conditioning shouldn't be taken for granted in a remarkable career.

[10 pnt move up]

Originally Posted by Gaining Ground

a better question might be who beat better horses. the answer is obvious.

and Cigar was a really nice horse, great horse..........he could not warm up the likes if Citation, Spectacular Bid.

[Gaining Ground]

Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up

and Cigar was a really nice horse, great horse..........he could not warm up the likes if Citation, Spectacular Bid.

i agree. neither could zenyatta. or rachel alexandra.

[JJP]

Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up

and Cigar was a really nice horse, great horse..........he could not warm up the likes if Citation, Spectacular Bid.

Apparently he didn't warm up Holy Bull, who pulled up when trying to go head and head with him.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by JJP

Apparently he didn't warm up Holy Bull, who pulled up when trying to go head and head with him.

It just never gets old. How sad.

[KirisClown]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

It just never gets old. How sad.

Look at the early pace in the race.. 23.72, 46.48...way too fast for Holy Bull, once he realized how good Cigar was, he broke down out of sheer fright.

1995 Donn + Post Race: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PsUUesICLMg