Zenyatta: Slayer of Scoundrels

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by miraja2

Good stuff as usual DrugS, but is it really fair to lump Gio Ponti in with those other slugs? He put together three first-rate performances in a row last summer and I thought he also ran a very strong race in the BCC.
While beating the others you mentioned may not show much, don't you think Gio Ponti was a pretty darn good horse last year? I think beating him is actually a feather in Zenyatta's cap.

Of course it is a feather in her cap. Spartacus also had to beat someone good somewhere along the way to become the peoples champion.

While good - Gio Ponti is certainly overrated and the thought of him as a Breeders Cup Classic winner sort of makes me laugh.

I also think Gio Ponti is a little better horse on turf than synthetic. He was 5th to Cowboy Cal in the Strub in his synth race prior to the BC Classic - and 4th to a trio of big longshots in his post BC Classic synth try.

[LARHAGE]

And who exactly has Rachel ever beat that Zenyatta wouldn't have? Macho Again? Bullsbay? The fact of the matter is Zenyatta has beat every rival to line up against her, when the pace has been against her, in big fields and small and on dirt and 3 different synthetic surfaces, why STILL disparage her?

The facts are Zenyatta is every bit the champion Rachel is, and in my opinion, she's better.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by LARHAGE

The fact of the matter is Zenyatta has beat every rival to line up against her, when the pace has been against her, in big fields and small and on dirt and 3 different synthetic surfaces, why STILL disparage her?

I disparaged only the horses who have been finishing 2nd to her.

However, one has every right to disparage several of her performances. Her win yesterday - which should generate no more than a 95 Beyer - was not impressive at all to me.

I was a lot more impressed with her previous victory over Brownie Points.

[DaTruth]

Originally Posted by LARHAGE

And who exactly has Rachel ever beat that Zenyatta wouldn't have? Macho Again? Bullsbay? The fact of the matter is Zenyatta has beat every rival to line up against her, when the pace has been against her, in big fields and small and on dirt and 3 different synthetic surfaces, why STILL disparage her?

The facts are Zenyatta is every bit the champion Rachel is, and in my opinion, she's better.

Do you really think that z could beat Summer Bird at 9-12 furlongs on real dirt?

[prudery]

Originally Posted by DaTruth

Do you really think that z could beat Summer Bird at 9-12 furlongs on real dirt?

There are a lot of horses I would wonder whether she could beat at 9-12 furlongs on real dirt, but Summer Bird is not one of them--nor is ANY horse racing today ...

You would have to reach in time and quality to find a FEW that I would question that she could beat, but what is out there today, she does beat-damn the Beyers .

It was a great period when folk could read a stopwatch and interpret how a track played on their own .

Now some have to wait for Bias to tell them how fast or slow a race and a horse are .

[DaTruth]

Originally Posted by prudery

There are a lot of horses I would wonder whether she could beat at 9-12 furlongs on real dirt, but Summer Bird is not one of them--nor is ANY horse racing today ...

You would have to reach in time and quality to find a FEW that I would question that she could beat, but what is out there today, she does beat-damn the Beyers .

That is crazy. z has NEVER beaten males on real dirt, so it is pure speculation to say she could beat Summer Bird or any other top male horses in training on real dirt. On the other hand, Rachel has already proven she can beat Summer Bird and other top male horses in training on real dirt.

[prudery]

Originally Posted by DaTruth

That is crazy. z has NEVER beaten males on real dirt, so it is pure speculation to say she could beat Summer Bird or any other top male horses in training on real dirt. On the other hand, Rachel has already proven she can beat Summer Bird and other top male horses in training on real dirt.

It is equally pure speculalion to say she can't .

She is very facile on dirt.

Rachel proved something LAST year so it may be meaningless to imply that she continues to be less than perfect on her preferred surface .

You are speculating ansd so am I--the difference is that until it is done, neither knows, but one record is flawless on both surfaces .

She can and will beat males on dirt, just as she beat them on synthetic .

My opinion, specualtion etc .

There is however more evidence that she will than she will not .

[randallscott35]

95 Beyer.

[DaTruth]

Originally Posted by prudery

There is however more evidence that she will than she will not .

This evidence being? She has never raced against males on real dirt, yet you are ready to reach back to years past to find male horses that can challenge her on real dirt.

"You would have to reach in time and quality to find a FEW that I would question that she could beat . . ."

[LARHAGE]

Originally Posted by DaTruth

That is crazy. z has NEVER beaten males on real dirt, so it is pure speculation to say she could beat Summer Bird or any other top male horses in training on real dirt. On the other hand, Rachel has already proven she can beat Summer Bird and other top male horses in training on real dirt.

Summer Bird is being used as some sort of gauge of greatness? I'm still trying to figure out the other "top'' males Rachel beat, I'm assuming the great Macho Again and Bullsbay? Zenyatta would beat those two in a canter, and Summer Bird would hardly be a horse they would fear.

[DaTruth]

Originally Posted by LARHAGE

Summer Bird is being used as some sort of gauge of greatness? I'm still trying to figure out the other "top'' males Rachel beat, I'm assuming the great Macho Again and Bullsbay? Zenyatta would beat those two in a canter, and Summer Bird would hardly be a horse they would fear.

Like she beat those Apple Blossom slugs in a canter? LOL. At least Rachel has a record against males on real dirt. All the Zaniacs have is speculation.

[LARHAGE]

Originally Posted by DaTruth

Do you really think that z could beat Summer Bird at 9-12 furlongs on real dirt?

I do, and giving him weight.