Zenyatta: Slayer of Scoundrels

[CSC]

Originally Posted by dagolfer33

I think its easy to discredit the beaten ones, and the ones they have beaten. But it is even easier to analyze the ones that have beaten her, BECAUSE THERE ARE NONE.

It beats the logic for the naysayers to exclaim she is the all time luckiest horse in history. Every horse she has beaten has been a pure stroke of good fortune, a stroke of luck, the stars are aligned argument. That's all that is left in this argument, a grasping of the straws mentality.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by CSC

It beats the logic for the naysayers to exclaim she is the all time luckiest horse in history.

She's not lucky.

She's just been very carefully managed and other than about three times in her career - she's faced pure crap.

[CSC]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

She's not lucky.

She's just been very carefully managed and other than about three times in her career - she's faced pure crap.

I think we can agree, the pure crap competition argument is one used to obfuscate the true quality of Zenyatta because what else is there to pick on? The beyers since she never lost? To use a quote from a beyer guy that at times you don't need to overanalyse every part of a horse's resume to know the horse deserves all of her accolades.
Steve Crist mentioned in his blog "Zenyatta, is a transcendently great horse who handles everything and is probably as good or better on dirt than on synthetics.

[brianwspencer]

Originally Posted by CSC

I think we can agree, the pure crap competition argument is one used to obfuscate the true quality of Zenyatta because what else is there to pick on? The beyers since she never lost? To use a quote from a beyer guy that at times you don't need to overanalyse every part of a horse's resume to know the horse deserves all of her accolades.
Steve Crist mentioned in his blog "Zenyatta, is a transcendently great horse who handles everything and is probably as good or better on dirt than on synthetics.

So if the Washington Nationals go 162-0 on a tour of facing America's high school teams on their own diamonds, the "they beat pure crap" argument would just be a diversion from how truly great the Nationals were and those arguments would be nothing but ways to obfuscate the true quality of that baseball team?

[CSC]

Originally Posted by brianwspencer

So if the Washington Nationals go 162-0 on a tour of facing America's high school teams on their own diamonds, the "they beat pure crap" argument would just be a diversion from how truly great the Nationals were and those arguments would be nothing but ways to obfuscate the true quality of that baseball team?

That's a horrible example, short of Zenyatta winning with one leg tied behind her back while conceding 30 lbs to the field because we know 16lbs is certainly not enough to impress, I don't ever think there is anything she can do to impress the naysayers.

[Port Conway Lane]

Originally Posted by CSC

That's a horrible example, short of Zenyatta winning with one leg tied behind her back while conceding 30 lbs to the field because we know 16lbs is certainly not enough to impress, I don't ever think there is anything she can do to impress the naysayers.

She must run a beyer above 120, beat horses that have run beyers above 110 and not have the worst horse to have ever won the race she is in run 2nd.

[CSC]

Originally Posted by Port Conway Lane

She must run a beyer above 120, beat horses that have run beyers above 110 and not have the worst horse to have ever won the race she is in run 2nd.

To be truly consistent here, or beat Macho Uno & or Bullsbay carrying 117 while beyering 107 to be considered as great or as great as Princess "when do I find a race without Zenyatta in it" Rachel.

[2Hot4TV]

Blah,Blah, Blah, Zeyatta haters keep trying to find a horse to out run her closing run.

I would like to see her at Belmont with QR in a one turn mile and that long run to the wire.

Who would of thought that a pure closer would be undefeated. 16 for 16 no matter what the pace was and all the Zenyatta haters have to say is that she is a synthetic track over achiver and run against cheap horses. Go figure

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by 2Hot4TV

I would like to see her at Belmont with QR in a one turn mile and that long run to the wire.

I'm glad you mentioned this.

If I had a say in the matter the Met Mile would be the one race I would like to see Zenyatta run in this year.

My guess, before the BC anyways, is the best we'll get is the Delaware Handicap.

I'm guessing for the rest of the year:

Milady
Stephen Foster or Fleur De Lis
Hollywood Gold Cup or Delaware Handicap
Lady's Secret
Breeder's Cup

[brianwspencer]

Originally Posted by CSC

That's a horrible example, short of Zenyatta winning with one leg tied behind her back while conceding 30 lbs to the field because we know 16lbs is certainly not enough to impress, I don't ever think there is anything she can do to impress the naysayers.

Originally Posted by Port Conway Lane

She must run a beyer above 120, beat horses that have run beyers above 110 and not have the worst horse to have ever won the race she is in run 2nd.

Not so much. It's just something about those who are foaming at the mouth about her greatness when in a 16 race career, she's been great as far as consistency goes, but has not had to actually be "great" to win about 12-13 of those races, because the horses she had to beat were maybe (being generous) Grade III types.

I'm impressed by her. I respect the hell out of her. I had an opinion on some bull$hit awards last year, but don't think Zenyatta is a bad horse. She's a very good, very consistent horse who has been carefully managed and beaten up on horses who belonged in Grade III stakes on their best days.

The reality is that there is nothing short of calling her the greatest mare ever while completely ignoring any objective analysis her competition, and breathing heavily out of my mouth in a panicked way that will *ever* be taken as anything less than a grave insult to Zenyatta by you, CSC. It's not that nobody is impressed. It's that your myopic view on the subject has led you to the point where nobody can objectively say anything about her or the crap she's been beating without you taking it personally and trying to turn it into something personal, some grudge against the horse -- something that it's not.

[brianwspencer]

Originally Posted by brianwspencer

So if the Washington Nationals go 162-0 on a tour of facing America's high school teams on their own diamonds, the "they beat pure crap" argument would just be a diversion from how truly great the Nationals were and those arguments would be nothing but ways to obfuscate the true quality of that baseball team?

Originally Posted by CSC

That's a horrible example.

On second thought, you're right -- this is a horrible example, because it involves them actually being on the road.

[PeteMugg]

Originally Posted by brianwspencer

On second thought, you're right -- this is a horrible example, because it involves them actually being on the road.

Odd timing, but note that Zenyatta has raced outside of Cali as often as Personal Ensign raced outside of New York. I'm not knocking PE, her competition or her accomplishments, but when you're the champ they have to come and get you.

This time Z came to the middle of the country to race on the dirt with fair notice to all. What's a gal gotta do?

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by CSC

Steve Crist mentioned in his blog "Zenyatta, is a transcendently great horse who handles everything and is probably as good or better on dirt than on synthetics.

"Transcendently great horse who handles everything" is kind of hard to stomach when it's coming from someone who rates Commentator the 2nd best horse of the last decade to not win a championship.

Commentator was 3-for-12 lifetime in Graded Stakes and not one for handling anything when he got a lot of pressure. He is a horse most likely to be appreciated by New Yorkers and the coldest of speed figure lovers.

Steve Crist is a great writer and obviously someone who knows horse racing extremely well.

He almost never is provocative though.

You know how some places have a thumbs-up and thumbs-down feature after you read a column. Crist's work always comes off as though he's shooting for all thumbs up from everyone.

I much prefer someone who is shooting for a thumbs down rating from every stupid person who disagrees with what they've just read...instead of someone who comes off like an impressive politican trying to pile up votes.

Sadly .. very few racing writers have that style .. and the ones who do often have brutally bad opinions or takes. Beyer is obviously the big exception.