Done till Spa. F horse racing

[Dahoss]

Originally Posted by Rudeboyelvis

War of Will absolutely was fouled. Hossy you are correct - no debate.
Gafflione was interviewed and said he had no horse, regardless of MS coming out. The fact remains - Country House was never touched, never vied for the lead but was put up based on nonsense.

I think MS was DQ’d for fouling War of Will though. That’s why he was placed behind him.

Total agreement Country House wasn’t fouled.

[Rudeboyelvis]

Originally Posted by Dahoss

I think MS was DQ’d for fouling War of Will though. That’s why he was placed behind him.

Total agreement Country House wasn’t fouled.

This was literally coming through the last turn, not in the stretch, and not affecting the outcome of the race....would you feel the same if they bumped out of the gate?

[Dahoss]

Originally Posted by Rudeboyelvis

This was literally coming through the last turn, not in the stretch, and not affecting the outcome of the race....would you feel the same if they bumped out of the gate?

I don’t agree it didn’t affect War of Will. I don’t care what Gaffilione says.

I’d love to see more DQs for more gate fouls.

[Rudeboyelvis]

Originally Posted by Dahoss

I don’t agree it didn’t affect War of Will. I don’t care what Gaffilione says.

I’d love to see more DQs for more gate fouls.

You are a seasoned horseplayer whose opinion I respect greatly. I simply ask you watch this race again. WoW was never winning this race.

[Dahoss]

Originally Posted by Rudeboyelvis

You are a seasoned horseplayer whose opinion I respect greatly. I simply ask you watch this race again. WoW was never winning this race.

I agree he wasn’t winning. But he was affected.

[Kitan]

I’m overseas, so I was watching the Churchill in-house feed. Only after Saez’s post-race interview (~2 mins after they hit the wire) did the objection sign light up. Travis Stone says objection 2nd vs 1st. No mention of stewards inquiry. I was confused, since there was nothing obvious on the pan shot. I then sat there for 15 minutes watching an audio-less feed showing replays. Watching over and over again 7 vs 20. Thinking, well maybe 7 floated 20 a little wide but 20 had his chance and was clearly second-best. Eventually, numbers come off graphics, 20 placed first and 7 off the screen. The first thing I’m thinking is did they forget to punch the 20 into the 2nd spot after the DQ? I had NO idea they were looking at something else. For the entire duration of the stewards reviewing footage, not once was there any mention of them looking at something other than 7 vs 20. No flashing of the inquiry sign. No video of a jockey other than Saez or Prat speaking on the phone. No one mentioning on the feed that stewards were looking at something other than the objection. THIS is the problem. Whether the horse(s) affected lost their placing chance is debatable enough in itself, let alone doing so when they weren’t “officially” doing so.

[King Glorious]

Originally Posted by Rudeboyelvis

You are a seasoned horseplayer whose opinion I respect greatly. I simply ask you watch this race again. WoW was never winning this race.

As long as I’ve been watching racing, which is over 30 years, that has never been the standard for a dq. The question is did he cost War of Will a placing? Forget whether he bothered Country House. That’s completely irrelevant. It’s irrelevant whether or not War of Will could have won.

[Rudeboyelvis]

Originally Posted by King Glorious

As long as I’ve been watching racing, which is over 30 years, that has never been the standard for a dq. The question is did he cost War of Will a placing? Forget whether he bothered Country House. That’s completely irrelevant. It’s irrelevant whether or not War of Will could have won.

I'd think you'd have to agree this is an oddly curious place to enforce such an arbitrary, subjective decision. Ms came out - IN THE TURN - 2 paths over a sloppy track..I've literally seen this movie 3 times a day at Aqueduct without even a blink of an eye.

It's the Kentucky Derby, Dude. There's 20 frigging horses. C'mon, you've got better than this.

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by Rudeboyelvis

I'd think you'd have to agree this is an oddly curious place to enforce such an arbitrary, subjective decision. Ms came out - IN THE TURN - 2 paths...I've literally seen this movie 3 times a day at Aqueduct without even a blink of an eye.

It's the Kentucky Derby, Dude. There's 20 frigging horses. C'mon, you've got better than this.

I agree 100% with you and King Glorious. To get taken down for something that happens on the turn, you usually have to totally butcher someone. This was not that big of a deal and may not have even cost anyone a placing. Not to mention that in the Derby they usually won't take you down for anything, let alone a borderline foul. I can't believe they took this horse down.

[King Glorious]

Originally Posted by Rudeboyelvis

I'd think you'd have to agree this is an oddly curious place to enforce such an arbitrary, subjective decision. Ms came out - IN THE TURN - 2 paths over a sloppy track..I've literally seen this movie 3 times a day at Aqueduct without even a blink of an eye.

It's the Kentucky Derby, Dude. There's 20 frigging horses. C'mon, you've got better than this.

It was unexpected because of the magnitude of the situation but I honestly felt like it was the right call. Using the argument that we’ve seen worse allowed to stand is, in my opinion, the wrong argument.

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by Dahoss

I don’t agree it didn’t affect War of Will. I don’t care what Gaffilione says.

Not sure if the Gaffilione quote is out of context. Why would he say he was out of horse if the War of Will was still contending for the win in deep stretch?

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

Not sure if the Gaffilione quote is out of context. " War of Will was still contending for the win in deep stretch?"

That is a huge lie. War of Will was so empty late in this race. If he'd of fouled horses that could run 10f, and were contending late in this race, then, it would make some sense. No, they dq'd him for fouling horses who couldn't run 10f on this day.

And, to Mark Casse, you were not gunna do much more than 8th place. You were out of horse. The best horse was dq'd because he possibly kept you from getting 6th, or 7th place.



Happy?

[SCUDSBROTHER]

And to these people who claim this dq is necessary to protect the horses and riders...


What????????????????????


You were just fine with them running about 20 horses on rubbery Jello (with standing water on it.) So, paalease.

[Bruinguybry]

Yeah that **** is cracking me up serling,aragona,bailey etc etc etc are all towomg the company line with that ****, but like you said they were all ok with horses beimg ran on a death strip for over a month. The only person on tv today that said anything worthwhile was rich migilore he said basically there's no rules in the derby and thats how he rode for the five he was in. They didnt want that trainer winning end of story

[Dahoss]

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER

That is a huge lie. War of Will was so empty late in this race. If he'd of fouled horses that could run 10f, and were contending late in this race, then, it would make some sense. No, they dq'd him for fouling horses who couldn't run 10f on this day.

And, to Mark Casse, you were not gunna do much more than 8th place. You were out of horse. The best horse was dq'd because he possibly kept you from getting 6th, or 7th place.



Happy?

You keep getting it all wrong. Casse didn’t claim foul. But he should have. There was an inquiry and the connections of Country House and Long Range Toddy claimed foul.

Are you really going to pretend Maximum Security didn’t impede War of Will, which led to Long Range Toddy having to sharply take up? Did you not see Maximum Security come out 3-4 paths?

I’m kind of surprised people that have watched thousands of races keep acting like novices. This was an easy call.

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Originally Posted by Dahoss

You keep getting it all wrong. Casse didn’t claim foul. But he should have. There was an inquiry and the connections of Country House and Long Range Toddy claimed foul.

Are you really going to pretend Maximum Security didn’t impede War of Will, which led to Long Range Toddy having to sharply take up? Did you not see Maximum Security come out 3-4 paths?

I’m kind of surprised people that have watched thousands of races keep acting like novices. This was an easy call.

1st off, if yall want perfection, don't run about 20 horses on rubbery jello. If people are concerned about the safety of the horses and jockeys, then, that's where to start. I brought up Casse because he was being interviewed on TVG. This is a trainer who put a horse on the track that couldn't run 10f. That's why he finished 8th. He had every chance to win this at the top of the stretch. He just had no finish. Most don't. They took this winner down for fouling horses who didn't have the gas to compete for the win. If he fouled horses who had a chance to win, I'd agree with you. They had zero chance to win, because they couldn't get 10f. That's what stewards do all the time (ignore fouls against "dead" horses.) Yall complained that you didn't like Giacamo winning. Well, look who you now have as a Kentucky Derby Winner............Enjoy.

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER

That is a huge lie.

War of Will was fouled at the 5/16 pole, just as he had made a move to get within a length of Maximum Security. He steadied and lost valuable ground when Maximum Security switched to his right lead and blew the turn. War of Will recovered and made up about 2 lengths on Maximum Security, who at this point was busy pinning Code of Honor against the rail.

When they straightened up, War of Will was no more than a neck behind Maximum Security with eventual winner Country House on the outside with a short lead.

War of Will did not wilt until the 1/16th pole (i.e., deep stretch).

War of Will was so empty late in this race.

Yeah, he had to make two separate moves for the lead less than a 1/16th of a mile apart.

Not sure why you wouldn't expect a horse that had its momentum taken away to tire late, especially after making a massive effort to get back into contention at the top of the stretch.

[moses]

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

War of Will was fouled at the 5/16 pole, just as he had made a move to get within a length of Maximum Security. He steadied and lost valuable ground when Maximum Security switched to his right lead and blew the turn. War of Will recovered and made up about 2 lengths on Maximum Security, who at this point was busy pinning Code of Honor against the rail.

When they straightened up, War of Will was no more than a neck behind Maximum Security with eventual winner Country House on the outside with a short lead.

War of Will did not wilt until the 1/16th pole (i.e., deep stretch).


Yeah, he had to make two separate moves for the lead less than a 1/16th of a mile apart.

Not sure why you wouldn't expect a horse that had its momentum taken away to tire late, especially after making a massive effort to get back into contention at the top of the stretch.

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

War of Will was fouled at the 5/16 pole, just as he had made a move to get within a length of Maximum Security. He steadied and lost valuable ground when Maximum Security switched to his right lead and blew the turn. War of Will recovered and made up about 2 lengths on Maximum Security, who at this point was busy pinning Code of Honor against the rail.

When they straightened up, War of Will was no more than a neck behind Maximum Security with eventual winner Country House on the outside with a short lead.

War of Will did not wilt until the 1/16th pole (i.e., deep stretch).


Yeah, he had to make two separate moves for the lead less than a 1/16th of a mile apart.

Not sure why you wouldn't expect a horse that had its momentum taken away to tire late, especially after making a massive effort to get back into contention at the top of the stretch.

Making excuses for horses that fade in the stretch of the Kentucky Derby is Fool's Gold. He couldn't get 10f. Period. He was right there, and faded because he isn't able to get 10f, and the winner can. Go kiss on Casse.

[hurricanefrank]

Originally Posted by Rudeboyelvis

This was literally coming through the last turn, not in the stretch, and not affecting the outcome of the race....would you feel the same if they bumped out of the gate?

there is no rule in ky of which I am aware which speaks to "not affecting the outcome of a race." Besides, who knows what War of the Will may have done if not interfered with at top of lane. Outcomes of races are absolutely impacted by fouls which occur within the race. And yes Bayern should have been DQ'd.