Done till Spa. F horse racing

[Rudeboyelvis]

Originally Posted by Dahoss

I don’t agree it didn’t affect War of Will. I don’t care what Gaffilione says.

I’d love to see more DQs for more gate fouls.

You are a seasoned horseplayer whose opinion I respect greatly. I simply ask you watch this race again. WoW was never winning this race.

[Dahoss]

Originally Posted by Rudeboyelvis

You are a seasoned horseplayer whose opinion I respect greatly. I simply ask you watch this race again. WoW was never winning this race.

I agree he wasn’t winning. But he was affected.

[Kitan]

I’m overseas, so I was watching the Churchill in-house feed. Only after Saez’s post-race interview (~2 mins after they hit the wire) did the objection sign light up. Travis Stone says objection 2nd vs 1st. No mention of stewards inquiry. I was confused, since there was nothing obvious on the pan shot. I then sat there for 15 minutes watching an audio-less feed showing replays. Watching over and over again 7 vs 20. Thinking, well maybe 7 floated 20 a little wide but 20 had his chance and was clearly second-best. Eventually, numbers come off graphics, 20 placed first and 7 off the screen. The first thing I’m thinking is did they forget to punch the 20 into the 2nd spot after the DQ? I had NO idea they were looking at something else. For the entire duration of the stewards reviewing footage, not once was there any mention of them looking at something other than 7 vs 20. No flashing of the inquiry sign. No video of a jockey other than Saez or Prat speaking on the phone. No one mentioning on the feed that stewards were looking at something other than the objection. THIS is the problem. Whether the horse(s) affected lost their placing chance is debatable enough in itself, let alone doing so when they weren’t “officially” doing so.

[King Glorious]

Originally Posted by Rudeboyelvis

You are a seasoned horseplayer whose opinion I respect greatly. I simply ask you watch this race again. WoW was never winning this race.

As long as I’ve been watching racing, which is over 30 years, that has never been the standard for a dq. The question is did he cost War of Will a placing? Forget whether he bothered Country House. That’s completely irrelevant. It’s irrelevant whether or not War of Will could have won.

[Rudeboyelvis]

Originally Posted by King Glorious

As long as I’ve been watching racing, which is over 30 years, that has never been the standard for a dq. The question is did he cost War of Will a placing? Forget whether he bothered Country House. That’s completely irrelevant. It’s irrelevant whether or not War of Will could have won.

I'd think you'd have to agree this is an oddly curious place to enforce such an arbitrary, subjective decision. Ms came out - IN THE TURN - 2 paths over a sloppy track..I've literally seen this movie 3 times a day at Aqueduct without even a blink of an eye.

It's the Kentucky Derby, Dude. There's 20 frigging horses. C'mon, you've got better than this.

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by Rudeboyelvis

I'd think you'd have to agree this is an oddly curious place to enforce such an arbitrary, subjective decision. Ms came out - IN THE TURN - 2 paths...I've literally seen this movie 3 times a day at Aqueduct without even a blink of an eye.

It's the Kentucky Derby, Dude. There's 20 frigging horses. C'mon, you've got better than this.

I agree 100% with you and King Glorious. To get taken down for something that happens on the turn, you usually have to totally butcher someone. This was not that big of a deal and may not have even cost anyone a placing. Not to mention that in the Derby they usually won't take you down for anything, let alone a borderline foul. I can't believe they took this horse down.

[King Glorious]

Originally Posted by Rudeboyelvis

I'd think you'd have to agree this is an oddly curious place to enforce such an arbitrary, subjective decision. Ms came out - IN THE TURN - 2 paths over a sloppy track..I've literally seen this movie 3 times a day at Aqueduct without even a blink of an eye.

It's the Kentucky Derby, Dude. There's 20 frigging horses. C'mon, you've got better than this.

It was unexpected because of the magnitude of the situation but I honestly felt like it was the right call. Using the argument that we’ve seen worse allowed to stand is, in my opinion, the wrong argument.

[ninetoone]

I bet the 5, so no agenda. I'll just say that I would have swapped my win ticket for a win ticket on War of Will prior to the incident. He was looking like a winner to me. Totally killed his momentum.

[scanman]

Here is a link to the stewards statement concerning the Derby DQ: https://www.pscp.tv/w/1MnGnvbXmNMGO

Just as I thought, their statement didn't not take into consideration the state of the track. This is a gross oversight as far as I am concerned. Perhaps, the written report will address it, but I wouldn't count on it. It appears that they neglected to take all of the conditions that led to the interference into consideration. Racing could do well to free itself of such short-sighted officiating.

[Rudeboyelvis]

Originally Posted by King Glorious

It was unexpected because of the magnitude of the situation but I honestly felt like it was the right call. Using the argument that we’ve seen worse allowed to stand is, in my opinion, the wrong argument.

Fair enough. My point, though it appears to have been missed, is that you are making the case to enforce an arbitrary penalty on a horse that did something literally every single horse does in its position over a sloppy track on the one day the world is watching. In stunned silence. This is no admission of " we've seen worse allowed to stand". WoW was admittedly stopping. MS slid, not "drifted" in front of a stopping horse - thus The winning horse gets placed 17th. That doesn't help anyone. Right or Wrong.

[King Glorious]

Originally Posted by Rudeboyelvis

Fair enough. My point, though it appears to have been missed, is that you are making the case to enforce an arbitrary penalty on a horse that did something literally every single horse does in its position over a sloppy track on the one day the world is watching. In stunned silence. This is no admission of " we've seen worse allowed to stand". WoW was admittedly stopping. MS slid, not "drifted" in front of a stopping horse - thus The winning horse gets placed 17th. That doesn't help anyone. Right or Wrong.

I don’t think it was arbitrary at all. It was a judgement call and one thing I have not seen is anyone dispute the fact that the winner interfered with those two horses. I think that in a situation like this, you have to break it down to one or two questions:

1. Did he interfere with the other horse? If you answer no, end of story. If you answer yes, you move on to question two.

2. Did he cost the horse he interfered with a placing? If you answer no, end of story. If you answer yes, you have no choice but to place him behind that horse.

I also don’t think you can say every other horse would do that. He was the only one that I saw do it today. Those other horses weren’t sliding out. Also, his jockey didn’t say anything about the horse losing his footing. He talked about the horse reacting to the noise of the crowd and that being the cause of him getting out. For me, track condition isn’t a reasonable excuse.

[NoLuvForPletch]

Actually, before MS did his dance, WOW bumped LRT, who bumped Bode, who bumped Improbable, as he was trying to create seam to run through.

[philcski]

Originally Posted by King Glorious

I don’t think it was arbitrary at all. It was a judgement call and one thing I have not seen is anyone dispute the fact that the winner interfered with those two horses. I think that in a situation like this, you have to break it down to one or two questions:

1. Did he interfere with the other horse? If you answer no, end of story. If you answer yes, you move on to question two.

2. Did he cost the horse he interfered with a placing? If you answer no, end of story. If you answer yes, you have no choice but to place him behind that horse.

I also don’t think you can say every other horse would do that. He was the only one that I saw do it today. Those other horses weren’t sliding out. Also, his jockey didn’t say anything about the horse losing his footing. He talked about the horse reacting to the noise of the crowd and that being the cause of him getting out. For me, track condition isn’t a reasonable excuse.

This is the only two questions that matter, and the answer is unequivocally yes to both. Forget about the winner. That is not the question at hand, even if you think he was bulletproof to win after that (I don't, but doesn't matter.) It's the interference that caused the other two to finish in lower positions than they would have had this not happened. Easy DQ.

[Cpt.Bodgit]

Originally Posted by King Glorious

I don’t think it was arbitrary at all. It was a judgement call and one thing I have not seen is anyone dispute the fact that the winner interfered with those two horses. I think that in a situation like this, you have to break it down to one or two questions:

1. Did he interfere with the other horse? If you answer no, end of story. If you answer yes, you move on to question two.

2. Did he cost the horse he interfered with a placing? If you answer no, end of story. If you answer yes, you have no choice but to place him behind that horse.

I also don’t think you can say every other horse would do that. He was the only one that I saw do it today. Those other horses weren’t sliding out. Also, his jockey didn’t say anything about the horse losing his footing. He talked about the horse reacting to the noise of the crowd and that being the cause of him getting out. For me, track condition isn’t a reasonable excuse.

I think the frustration comes in where there is no consistency from race to race let alone from track to track with stewards. Horses get left up ALL THE TIME for doing this "because the 2nd place finisher wasn't affected". This was the case yesterday as Country House was never going by.

I don't have a problem with the DQ because he went 5 paths out. But i'll have a problem when they leave up a horse at Belmont today for doing the same thing "because the 2nd place finisher wasn't affected". Then on Friday they will taken them down. Zero and I mean zero consistency.

[knickslions2]

Originally Posted by King Glorious

It was unexpected because of the magnitude of the situation but I honestly felt like it was the right call. Using the argument that we’ve seen worse allowed to stand is, in my opinion, the wrong argument.

Sorry my friend but this was a bad call