NY Task Force on Racehorse Health & Safety Report, Reccos

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

This all started because I mentioned about using clenbuterol every day without knowing for sure it would be beneficial. If you don't see anything wrong with that, there just wasn't much to discuss because we'll never agree.

How is giving clenbuterol to a kid that has asthma remotely close to giving it to a horse because it might be beneficial, and doing it every day? If you want to argue that point, you'll need to do it with those that wrote the report. I don't think they are on any side of the drug issue. They just presented the facts.

Really, this sums up the whole thing:



You know nothing about me, or what I know, but on the other hand think you know everything about every subject. I know you are the tsar of Derby Trail. From now on I'll bow down to your greatness.

This is an incredible copout.

Your statement that I'm wrong and you are right about the use of clenbuterol on a daily basis drips with irony considering your last paragraph.

[cmorioles]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

This is an incredible copout.

Your statement that I'm wrong and you are right about the use of clenbuterol on a daily basis drips with irony considering your last paragraph.

I'm not the one that said clenbuterol should not be used every day. You obviously don't do it anymore, so it seems you actually agree.

"Investigators became concerned about clenbuterol when they found that some horses were getting it almost continually from their private veterinarians. Clenbuterol is approved only for the short-term treatment of respiratory disease, and is very effective. But when used in large amounts over a lengthy period, it builds muscle and can also cause health problems or death. "

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

I'm not the one that said clenbuterol should not be used every day. You obviously don't do it anymore, so it seems you actually agree.

"Investigators became concerned about clenbuterol when they found that some horses were getting it almost continually from their private veterinarians. Clenbuterol is approved only for the short-term treatment of respiratory disease, and is very effective. But when used in large amounts over a lengthy period, it builds muscle and can also cause health problems or death. "

No actually you seemed to infer that I was wrong for using it without knowing for sure if it would be beneficial.

[cmorioles]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

No actually you seemed to infer that I was wrong for using it without knowing for sure if it would be beneficial.

Personally I wouldn't do that, particularly for three or four months. Your owners told you it was OK I assume. They paid for it, not me. As an owner, I'd be pissed to find out I paid for the every day administration of a drug that does what the report purports long term. I'd be a bad owner though. I would ask too many questions.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

Personally I wouldn't do that, particularly for three or four months. Your owners told you it was OK I assume. They paid for it, not me. As an owner, I'd be pissed to find out I paid for the every day administration of a drug that does what the report purports long term. I'd be a bad owner though. I would ask too many questions.

Let's just say that that particular owner was far more concerned with winning races than he is with pretty much anything else.

I have no problem with owners asking questions. Educated people are far better decision makers than people who are informed via Joe Drape.

The entire tone of that recent NYT piece that all these poor owners are being duped into paying huge vet bills by trainers is hyperbole. The truth is that we arent paid by most people to train their horse, we are paid to win races hence the main method of selecting trainers is via win %. You wont find that in any reports or studies. But when a large majority of owners continue to use a single qualification to choose trainers (win %) they are more or less endorsing whatever methods tht trainer employs. I find it hard to believe that people are stunned when they get huge vet bills from leading trainers.

Personally I prefer to train for people who have a clue as to what is going on and care about their horses. I could have twice as many horses as I have now pretty easily but too many people dont pay and what can be worse for your horse than having a trainer cutting corners because they dont have enough money to do things right?

[cmorioles]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Let's just say that that particular owner was far more concerned with winning races than he is with pretty much anything else.

I have no problem with owners asking questions. Educated people are far better decision makers than people who are informed via Joe Drape.

The entire tone of that recent NYT piece that all these poor owners are being duped into paying huge vet bills by trainers is hyperbole. The truth is that we arent paid by most people to train their horse, we are paid to win races hence the main method of selecting trainers is via win %. You wont find that in any reports or studies. But when a large majority of owners continue to use a single qualification to choose trainers (win %) they are more or less endorsing whatever methods tht trainer employs. I find it hard to believe that people are stunned when they get huge vet bills from leading trainers.

Personally I prefer to train for people who have a clue as to what is going on and care about their horses. I could have twice as many horses as I have now pretty easily but too many people dont pay and what can be worse for your horse than having a trainer cutting corners because they dont have enough money to do things right?

Just to be clear I wasn't talking about the NYT article. I haven't even read the last one after the first two. They are full of crap for the most part.

For the record, if I did own horses, you are the kind of guy I would hire. The last guys I would hire would be people like Pletcher or Asmussen.

[NoLuvForPletch]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

Just to be clear I wasn't talking about the NYT article. I haven't even read the last one after the first two. They are full of crap for the most part.

For the record, if I did own horses, you are the kind of guy I would hire. The last guys I would hire would be people like Pletcher or Asmussen.

Hey Chuck. You made a sale! You gave this guy too much of your time, though I enjoyed reading your take on things. So all was not lost.