NY Task Force on Racehorse Health & Safety Report, Reccos

[freddymo]

Dr Riot and her special friends decided to further pretend lasix isnt a performance enhancing drug how quaint.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by freddymo

Dr Riot and her special friends decided to further pretend lasix isnt a performance enhancing drug how quaint.

I guess you didn't bother to actually read what I wrote, especially the sixth and seventh paragraphs.

This is why you have zero credibility discussing furosemide use in race horses. You falsely say people said the opposite of what they have just written, with the writing that proves you wrong right here in front of everyone's eyes

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by Riot

I guess you didn't bother to actually read what I wrote, especially the sixth and seventh paragraphs.

This is why you have zero credibility discussing furosemide use in race horses. You falsely say people said the opposite of what they have just written, with the writing that proves you wrong right here in front of everyone's eyes

Ok gotcha now you are onboard with lasix as a performance enhance drug as per paragraph 6 and 7.. Have a heart you are a fraud Dr Riot.

[Dahoss]

Originally Posted by Riot

My position on lasix hasn't changed in five years. You can go back and read it here in the archives. Don't continue trying to lie about me to cover your embarrassment over being caught out saying something stupid.

Do you think lasix is a performance enhancer? I read your post and it's a little confusing because you say things like performance improvement is a disproven wives tale. Then you objected to Freddy saying you were pretending it isn't a performance enhancer.

So let's make it nice and simple. In your opinion is it a performance enhancer?

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Dahoss

Do you think lasix is a performance enhancer? I read your post and it's a little confusing because you say things like performance improvement is a disproven wives tale. Then you objected to Freddy saying you were pretending it isn't a performance enhancer.

So let's make it nice and simple. In your opinion is it a performance enhancer?

What I wrote regarding performance (even saying the same thing twice) was:

"Also discussed was disproven old wives tales regarding lasix effect on dilution of urine,
why performance is increased and how much (measurable)
ability to mask drugs,
why the holding period is 4 hours,
why performance improves in the horse and by how much,
why the dose is what it is in the racehorse, etc (background stuff)"

"Some interesting recent stuff about the best efficacy of lasix for initial and chronic use (at what distances) - there is a distinct variance of shown efficacy regarding horse performance between sprint (most), middle distance, and distance (least). Interesting couple pieces of info that would help trainers starting young horses."

My opinion is what the science has always told us is true:

Virtually all TB race horses suffer EIPH.
Suffering EIPH impedes performance.
Lasix attenuates EIPH very successfully.
Horses that don't suffer EIPH regain their performance level.
Yes, lasix improves performance in horses suffering EIPH.
If you give any performance horse lasix (outside of EIPH) does their performance improve?
No. Not at all. No, lasix is not a performance-enhancer.

[cmorioles]

Originally Posted by Riot

Virtually all TB race horses suffer EIPH.

Virtually all, except nearly every 2yo that raced without Lasix at Saratoga this year.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

Virtually all, except nearly every 2yo that raced without Lasix at Saratoga this year.

When you look for a EIPH using a testing methodology (1 scope post-work or race within 2 hours) that has been proven to miss an accurate diagnosis 80% of the time, people tend to hold the factually false opinion on morbidity rate that you do.

If you don't look for it, you don't find it.

Virtually all TB race horses suffer EIPH. Every single incidence of EIPH, no matter how minor, or detected grossly or not, damages lung tissue.

[Dahoss]

Originally Posted by Riot

Virtually all TB race horses suffer EIPH.
Suffering EIPH impedes performance.
Lasix attenuates EIPH very successfully.
Horses that don't suffer EIPH regain their performance level.
Yes, lasix improves performance in horses suffering EIPH.
If you give any performance horse lasix (outside of EIPH) does their performance improve?
No. Not at all. No, lasix is not a performance-enhancer.

You are saying two different things.

You're saying it does improve performance in bleeders. But it doesn't improve performance in non bleeders. It just lets them "regain their performance level."

well, if they aren't suffering EIPH, then they shouldn't need lasix right? And what performance level are they regaining if their performance level wasn't impeded to begin with?

[Danzig]

dear sweet baby jesus.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Dahoss

You are saying two different things.

You're saying it does improve performance in bleeders.

Yes, because lasix stops microscopic EIPH bleeding deep in the lungs and thus the horse gets more oxygen.

But it doesn't improve performance in non bleeders. It just lets them "regain their performance level."

No, that's not what I said. I said horses that suffer EIPH will regain their performance levels because they are no longer bleeding.

If you give lasix (which is simply a loop diuretic) to a horse that does not experience EIPH due to it's work (such as an elite-level cutting horse, a barrel racer), no, lasix will not improve it's performance.

Lasix is not a stand-alone performance enhancer.

Lasix is a therapeutic medication that attenuates EIPH. Of course, if you eliminate bleeding into a horses lungs, the horse will get more oxygen and perform better.