Michelle Calls Barack a "Kenyan"

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by Riot

Rupert, serious question: why do you think the federal government and many Republicans are "in on" the Obama birth coverup?

Why do you think Bush/Cheney, when they were still in the White House, still had all the power - didn't expose this during Obama's run for President?

Why did McCain, Romney, Hillary all fail to make this public?

Why did the Republican governor of Hawaii say Obama was born in Hawaii?

What explains the massive, bipartisan federal coverup cooperation by Obama's political enemies?

I think those are legitimate questions. I would say the answer is probably that many of those people didn't think his birthplace was a question. They probably figured he must have been born in Hawaii or someone would have discovered it a long time ago. Either that or they didn't thinik they could prove he wasn't born in Hawaii.

Right now there is a fairly big campaign involving lawyers, private investigators, etc. and they haven't been able to get anywhere. It's obviously not an easy thing to prove since they can't subpoena the birth certificate.

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

I think those are legitimate questions. I would say the answer is probably that many of those people didn't think his birthplace was a question. They probably figured he must have been born in Hawaii or someone would have discovered it a long time ago. Either that or they didn't thinik they could prove he wasn't born in Hawaii.

Right now there is a fairly big campaign involving lawyers, private investigators, etc. and they haven't been able to get anywhere. It's obviously not an easy thing to prove since they can't subpoena the birth certificate.

a HUGE waste of no wonder America is in the crapper. We have nutcases that spend tons of money on a stupid birth certificate for an American President that is no doubt, 100%, born in Hawaii. Then we have a political base that wont let it go, and wonder why others think they are crazy.

[SOREHOOF]

If his mother is in fact an American, I don't think it matters where he was born, that qualifies him as a citizen. Maybe I'm wrong. Not being raised in this country is how he came up with his unique worldview.

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by Antitrust32

a HUGE waste of no wonder America is in the crapper. We have nutcases that spend tons of money on a stupid birth certificate for an American President that is no doubt, 100%, born in Hawaii. Then we have a political base that wont let it go, and wonder why others think they are crazy.

You guys make good points. He may have been born in Hawaii. But when you consider the facts that he won't release his birth certificate, his aunt says she was there when he was born in Kenya, the White House can't make up their mind about which hospital he was born at, the guy from the election board says he definitely wasn't born in Hawaii, etc., it raises some doubt.

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by Antitrust32

a HUGE waste of no wonder America is in the crapper. We have nutcases that spend tons of money on a stupid birth certificate for an American President that is no doubt, 100%, born in Hawaii. Then we have a political base that wont let it go, and wonder why others think they are crazy.

Since you love my analogies, I will give you an analogy. Let's say that I meet a guy and I know 100 people who know this guy. The guy claims he is 35 years old. Of the 100 people that know him, 98 of them say that they have known him for a while and they are almost positive that he is in fact 35 years old. The other two people say that they think he is actually older. They think he is around 40 years old. So out of the 100 people that know him, 98 people are pretty sure that the guy is 35. The other 2 people don't believe it and they think the guy is around 40.

Now let's say that this guy swears he is 35 but he refuses to show anyone his driver's license. In that case, I would be suspicious of his age.

[brianwspencer]

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

Since you love my analogies, I will give you an analogy. Let's say that I meet a guy and I know 100 people who know this guy. The guy claims he is 35 years old. Of the 100 people that know him, 98 of them say that they have known him for a while and they are almost positive that he is in fact 35 years old. The other two people say that they think he is actually older. They think he is around 40 years old. So out of the 100 people that know him, 98 people are pretty sure that the guy is 35. The other 2 people don't believe it and they think the guy is around 40.

Now let's say that this guy swears he is 35 but he refuses to show anyone his driver's license. In that case, I would be suspicious of his age.

The difference there, though, is that you don't look like a total fool running around screaming conspiracy theories when wondering if a guy is 35 or whether he's 40, and he doesn't make a fool of you by not showing his driver's license.

You're not embarrassed in the situation above because you don't wind up looking like a raving lunatic.

That outcome is the key difference between that scenario and the birther one. Otherwise, it was an excellent comparison!

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by brianwspencer

The difference there, though, is that you don't look like a total fool running around screaming conspiracy theories when wondering if a guy is 35 or whether he's 40, and he doesn't make a fool of you by not showing his driver's license.

You're not embarrassed in the situation above because you don't wind up looking like a raving lunatic.

That outcome is the key difference between that scenario and the birther one. Otherwise, it was an excellent comparison!

That is your opinion that anyone who questions Obama's birthplace is a raving lunatic. I'm sure there are plenty of people that agree with you. But I'm sure there are plenty of people who don't.

[Riot]

"FactCheck.org staffers have now seen, touched, examined and photographed the original birth certificate. We conclude that it meets all of the requirements from the State Department for proving U.S. citizenship. Claims that the document lacks a raised seal or a signature are false. We have posted high-resolution photographs of the document as "supporting documents" to this article. Our conclusion: Obama was born in the U.S.A. just as he has always said.[17]

An image of a sample Certificate of Live Birth issued by the State of Hawaii in 1961. The certificate includes detailed information such as hospital and physician names

The director of Hawaii's Department of Health, Chiyome Fukino, issued a statement confirming that the state held Obama's "original birth certificate on record in accordance with state policies and procedures".[10][11]"

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by Riot

We all know about the certificate of live birth. The certificate of live birth does not prove anything. That is not a birth certificate. You do not need to be born in the US to get one of those.

The existence of Obama's ceritificate of live birth is not disputed by anyone.

[brianwspencer]

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

That is your opinion that anyone who questions Obama's birthplace is a raving lunatic. I'm sure there are plenty of people that agree with you. But I'm sure there are plenty of people who don't.

There are also plenty of people who believe that if they blow themselves up, they'll be rewarded with 72 virgins in the afterlife.

There are also plenty of people who believe that George Bush ordered 9/11.

Not all opinions are created equal. Not every opinion should be respected as legitimate just because there is a group of people that believes it.

That's the problem. Not that you seem to think I don't know what an opinion is, or that you're entitled to one just like I am. The problem is that opinions are not necessarily equal just because someone says "well that's my opinion."

I say grass is green. If you tell me it's not, and that it's your opinion, that doesn't make your opinion legitimate. It is, obviously, still the opinion that you're certainly entitled to, but it's still ridiculous and laughable and absurd and should not be treated as anything less than such just because you're hiding behind the tired old "well that's your opinion, and this is mine, which I'm entitled to" routine.

And that's how we've ended up here. You're entitled to be a crazy birther, but you shouldn't expect to get treated like anything other than a crazy birther, as much as you seem to keep acting as though this is something along the lines of investigative journalism (certainly what WND is known for: objective investigative journalism!!1!!!!11!), rather than crackpot crazy conspiracy theory. If the shoe fits, wear it.

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by brianwspencer

There are also plenty of people who believe that if they blow themselves up, they'll be rewarded with 72 virgins in the afterlife.

There are also plenty of people who believe that George Bush ordered 9/11.

Not all opinions are created equal. Not every opinion should be respected as legitimate just because there is a group of people that believes it.

That's the problem. Not that you seem to think I don't know what an opinion is, or that you're entitled to one just like I am. The problem is that opinions are not necessarily equal just because someone says "well that's my opinion."

I say grass is green. If you tell me it's not, and that it's your opinion, that doesn't make your opinion legitimate. It is, obviously, still the opinion that you're certainly entitled to, but it's still ridiculous and laughable and absurd and should not be treated as anything less than such just because you're hiding behind the tired old "well that's your opinion, and this is mine, which I'm entitled to" routine.

And that's how we've ended up here. You're entitled to be a crazy birther, but you shouldn't expect to get treated like anything other than a crazy birther, as much as you seem to keep acting as though this is something along the lines of investigative journalism (certainly what WND is known for: objective investigative journalism!!1!!!!11!), rather than crackpot crazy conspiracy theory. If the shoe fits, wear it.

I agree with you 100% that not all opinions are equal.

You misunderstood what I said. When I said that plenty of people would disagree with you, I was not talking about birthers disagreeing with you about where Obama was born. I was disagreeing with your assumption that everyone thinks that anyone who questions Obama's birthplace is a "raving lunatic".

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

Since you love my analogies, I will give you an analogy. Let's say that I meet a guy and I know 100 people who know this guy. The guy claims he is 35 years old. Of the 100 people that know him, 98 of them say that they have known him for a while and they are almost positive that he is in fact 35 years old. The other two people say that they think he is actually older. They think he is around 40 years old. So out of the 100 people that know him, 98 people are pretty sure that the guy is 35. The other 2 people don't believe it and they think the guy is around 40.

Now let's say that this guy swears he is 35 but he refuses to show anyone his driver's license. In that case, I would be suspicious of his age.

maybe he has a femine side and says age is nobodies business

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by Antitrust32

maybe he has a femine side and says age is nobodies business

That would be fine. Some people don't like to give their age. But if a guy is adamant about being 35, and yet refuses to show you his driver's license, I would be suspicious.