Tuesday primaries

[wiphan]

Originally Posted by Riot

According to the US Bureau of Labor Statistics (the nationally-recognized standard) Wisconsin lost 23,000 jobs in 2011, the worse state in the national (every other state posted equality or gains)

The newspaper article you posted listed 39,000 jobs lost via different method. And then a method used by Walker alone to show that everyone else is wrong, he's really created jobs.

I'll stick with the historical accuracy and common use of the US Bureau of Labor Statistics, used nationally and for some time to accurately quantitate job losses in all states.



Those are opinion. Not fact. There is a difference, you know.



I can't speak for "the Democrats" (and either can you) but no, I do not hope Wisconsin fails.

IMO, the Walker adminstration has been already been a disaster for Wisconsin, and the fail exists now: lying, budget overruns, union busting, job loss.

I am working hard to help contribute to his recall be effective, and for Walker to be voted out of office.



What "survey" are you referring to? What "logic"?

I mentioned is that Walker is ahead of Barrett in the polls now by, at the least, 5 points (range 5-6). That's fact, not "logic". You're just not making sense now.

In honor of your anger and discomfit, I just donated another $50 to Tom Barrett via Act Blue for his ads.

He's five points behind, he needs all the help he can get against Walker's outside oil money and national backers for the ALEC and Koch Brothers agenda. Scott Walker is a liar, and needs to be voted out of office. I am glad there is a historic recall election of this governor, he deserves it. I certainly stand behind my friends and family working hard to do so in Wisconsin. You are free to vote for Walker, and work hard for his re-election.

keep sending the money Barrett needs it.

Why don't you take the time to learn how the department of labor comes up with their figures? Once you understand this maybe then you can see how the numbers that were reported today are much more accurate. There are independent economists that have verified this as well.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by wiphan

keep sending the money Barrett needs it.

Why don't you take the time to learn how the department of labor comes up with their figures? Once you understand this maybe then you can see how the numbers that were reported today are much more accurate. There are independent economists that have verified this as well.

No, the figures are not "more accurate", they are different, using different parameters.

Walker has to go to this obtuse method to show a job gain.

Most people, especially economists, are aware of that. I am. You?

The good thing is that, due to other recalls, Walker has already lost his majority of legislature, so the checks and balances on his ALEC and KOCH agenda will now be in place, even if he wins his recall election. There are still other recalls pending on election day, too. Wisconsin citizens are mad. They recalled these dangerous bozos as soon as they could legally do so. Historic lack of voter confidence.

The worse thing is Walker lied during his campaign, and lied to the public after his election. He said he was not trying to union bust, but he's caught on video tape saying his intention is to "divide and conquer" to union bust. He's a proven, demonstrable liar, and a mere tool of the ALEC GOP agenda. Here is the video of Walker lying. With comments from George Carlin:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RLuze...layer_embedded

That's a bit worse than "ACORN registers voters OMG!"

Walker also has a massive ongoing felony investigation of the illegal political practices that occurred within his office at his last government job, has had to create a defense fund for that (only permissable to legally create if he's undergoing investigation) and he's ruined the states' budget, with massive deficit due to his tax cuts and with his having to take money from suffering homeowners to close a little bit of his gap. I can't imagine why you are so angry and defending this loser. If the above had been done by a Democratic governor, you're head would be exploding in your rush to get him recalled and out of office. So would my head. That's why Walker has been recalled, and must undergo another election if he wants to regain his seat.

[wiphan]

Originally Posted by Riot

No, the figures are not "more accurate", they are different, using different parameters.

Walker has to go to this obtuse method to show a job gain.

Most people, especially economists, are aware of that. I am. You?

The good thing is that, due to other recalls, Walker has already lost his majority of legislature, so the checks and balances on his ALEC and KOCH agenda will now be in place, even if he wins his recall election. There are still other recalls pending on election day, too. Wisconsin citizens are mad. They recalled these dangerous bozos as soon as they could legally do so. Historic lack of voter confidence.

The worse thing is Walker lied during his campaign, and lied to the public after his election. He said he was not trying to union bust, but he's caught on video tape saying his intention is to "divide and conquer" to union bust. He's a proven, demonstrable liar, and a mere tool of the ALEC GOP agenda. Here is the video of Walker lying. With comments from George Carlin:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RLuze...layer_embedded

That's a bit worse than "ACORN registers voters OMG!"

Walker also has a massive ongoing felony investigation of the illegal political practices that occurred within his office at his last government job, has had to create a defense fund for that (only permissable to legally create if he's undergoing investigation) and he's ruined the states' budget, with massive deficit due to his tax cuts and with his having to take money from suffering homeowners to close a little bit of his gap. I can't imagine why you are so angry and defending this loser. If the above had been done by a Democratic governor, you're head would be exploding in your rush to get him recalled and out of office. So would my head. That's why Walker has been recalled, and must undergo another election if he wants to regain his seat.

Keep trying to change the subject. Please explain to me how the department of labor obtains their numbers and how the numbers were obtained that were released today?

BTW- Barrett's wife used her email at MPS during the time which she was working at MPS for political purposes. I don't see you reporting on that. Nor is the liberal media. Many of your above comments are completely false, but I am trying to stick to the subject of jobs

[Riot]

Originally Posted by wiphan

Keep trying to change the subject. Please explain to me how the department of labor obtains their numbers and how the numbers were obtained that were released today?

It's not "changing the subject" of recalling Walker to mention his ongoing felony investigation, his budget crisis, his taking of money intended towards homeowners, his being caught lying about union busting red-handed, or Wisconsin's "worse in the nation" jobs loss performance.

But back to Walker lying about labor statistics ... Here you go. Here's a good explanation about the unverified (non-corrected for error) numbers Walker has released early, from Forbes.

It is an in-depth, two-page analysis with good information.

Scott Walker Magically Turns Dismal Wisconsin Job Numbers Into A Pre-Election Miracle

With Wisconsin suffering the worst job loss numbers in the nation for the calendar year 2011, Governor Scott Walker promised yesterday that he will reveal newly revised numbers this week that will, effectively, change water into wine on the Wisconsin job front.

And he’s done it just in time for the June 5th recall election.

So, just how is Walker about to turn Wisconsin’s dismal job numbers from lemons to lemonade? (Note: See Update at the end of this article discussing the Governor’s revisions out today, May 16th)

The Governor has simply decided to ignore the system used by the Department of Labor —and every other state in the nation —to measure job growth (or loss) and elected instead to go with a different set of numbers that makes things in Wisconsin look better.

Who knew it could be so easy to solve a jobs crisis?

With Wisconsin’s lagging job growth now driving voter sentiment as the state heads towards the June 5th election,

Walker’s Wisconsin Department of Revenue’s Chief Economist, John Koskinen, offered a presentation last week to Walker staff members and state economic officials accountants from the Association of Government Accountants wherein he made the case for an alternate system of measuring job creation— one that would be ‘unique’ to the Badger State.

... snip ...

Koskinen’s essential pitch is that the Establishment Payroll Survey—the Department of Labor (DOL) survey conducted each month to produce the jobs numbers—is an unfair way to go about counting jobs in Wisconsin. Why? Because the numbers look worse for Wisconsin under this method of counting than they would when the state relies upon on a different survey done each month by the DOL entitled the “Current Population Survey.”

The problem is, whether convenient to Wisconsin or not, the Establishment Payroll Survey is the metric used by the DOL —and the system relied upon by every other state in the nation— to measure job growth.

Continued http://www.forbes.com/sites/rickunga...ction-miracle/

[wiphan]

Originally Posted by Riot

It's not "changing the subject" of recalling Walker to mention his ongoing felony investigation, his budget crisis, his taking of money intended towards homeowners, his being caught lying about union busting red-handed, or Wisconsin's "worse in the nation" jobs loss performance.

But back to Walker lying about labor statistics ... Here you go. Here's a good explanation about the unverified (non-corrected for error) numbers Walker has released early, from Forbes.

It is an in-depth, two-page analysis with good information.

Is walker under investigation? Didn't walker just give a huge grant to WHEDA?

Is Rick Unger an economist? What is his background?

[Riot]

Originally Posted by wiphan

Is walker under investigation?

He isn't supposed to be, but the only way you can legally establish the defense fund Walker has established is if you are under investigation.

So that's confusing and implies there may be something pending and coming out in the future.

Is Rick Unger an economist? What is his background?

You can read his economic pedigree at Forbes.

There are plenty of other news stories today on this odd and unusual move by Walker, and the "new and unique" way he's decided to suddenly start calculating the jobs numbers for Wisconsin, differently than every other state in the union, and differently from the way Wisconsin has always done it in the past.

Gee - could it be Walker is trying to lie about his dismal job creation record, and cover it up two weeks before his recall election?

Here's excerpts from one:

Madison - Pushing back against Democratic critics of his jobs record, Gov. Scott Walker on Wednesday trumpeted a new job creation number sent this week to federal officials.

The new number sent to the federal Bureau of Labor Statistics shows that Wisconsin gained 23,321 jobs, both public and private, between December 2010 and December 2011.

Normally, the state would leave it to federal officials to release that number next month after the June 5 recall election for Gov. Scott Walker, but instead in an unusual move the Walker administration released the number early to the public Wednesday.

But administration officials so far have not provided other figures that are normally released with the overall job creation figure, such as how many of the jobs were in the private sector and how many in the public sector, though they said they might release those later Wednesday.

Officials in two other neighboring states run by Democratic governors, Illinois and Minnesota, said they didn't believe their states had released such numbers in the past ahead of the federal government.

http://www.jsonline.com/news/statepo...151774215.html

[wiphan]

Originally Posted by Riot

He isn't supposed to be, but the only way you can legally establish the defense fund Walker has established is if you are under investigation.

So that's confusing and implies there may be something pending and coming out in the future..

The above is false, but again why let the facts enter the discussion.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by wiphan

The above is false, but again why let the facts enter the discussion.

I said, about the ongoing John Doe felony investigation into Walkers office at his previous government job:

Originally Posted by Riot
He isn't supposed to be, [under investigation] but the only way you can legally establish the defense fund Walker has established is if you are under investigation.

So that's confusing and implies there may be something pending and coming out in the future..

What is false about that statement? Be specific. Enter the facts into the discussion.

I'll go first.

Walker, who was elected governor in 2010, hasn't been charged with any wrongdoing and has repeatedly said he's not the focus of the probe.

He disclosed in March, though, that he set up a legal defense fund using $60,000 in campaign contributions with guidance from the Government Accountability Board. State law allows such moves only if officeholders or their agents have been charged with or are under investigation for election or campaign violations.

It appears my statement is 100% correct. Walker isn't charged, but GAB allowed him to set a defense fund, that can only be set up if, quoting GAB, "you are charged with or under investigation for election or campaign violations".

[wiphan]

Originally Posted by Riot

What is false about that statement? Be specific.

Governor Walker does not have to be under investigation personally in order to have a legal defense fund.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by wiphan

Governor Walker does not have to be under investigation personally in order to have a legal defense fund.

The Government Accountability Board has repeatedly and publicly said differently since they (the GAB) helped Walker set up the fund according to the law.

Can you quote where you are getting your completely different information?

[wiphan]

Originally Posted by Riot

The Government Accountability Board has repeatedly and publicly said differently since they (the GAB) helped Walker set up the fund according to the law.

Can you quote where you are getting your completely different information?

Under state law, he is allowed to create a criminal defense fund if he, his campaign or campaign staffers are under investigation

So if anyone he worked with in his campaign, etc including Darlene Wink was under investigation he can have the defense fund. He does not specifically have to be under investigation

Care to comment on Barrett's wife and the facts behind her illegal actions?

[Riot]

Originally Posted by wiphan

Under state law, he is allowed to create a criminal defense fund if he, his campaign or campaign staffers are under investigation

It's a thin line about the campaign staffers, and the GAB was questioned about that at the time but will not respond publicly.

So Walker has been asked many times - again, today - to say publicly why he has established a criminal defense fund using his campaign money.

Is he under investigation, or is it just the ongoing felony investigations of the office staff that was sitting within feet of him in his government office? Because we all know those four members of Walkers staff are charged with felonies as they were not supposed to be doing Walker's campaigning while employed by and at their government jobs. Whoops.

Walker refuses to say. Don't you'd think he'd come out and say - especially right before the election - it's defense money for his staffers, not himself, if that were true?

Care to comment on Barrett's wife and the facts behind her illegal actions?

Give the details. I'm unfamiliar. Is she a government employee? What did she do?

[Riot]

"Scott Walker Magically Turns Dismal Wisconsin Job Numbers Into A Pre-Election Miracle"

However, Scott Walkers Magic Math pretending thousands of new jobs were created was proven wrong today, when the real numbers were released:

At a time when Wisconsin's jobs statistics are under scrutiny as never before, preliminary data released Thursday showed that Wisconsin lost an estimated 6,200 private-sector jobs in April.

http://www.jsonline.com/business/sta...151909605.html

This man is so desperate to be re-elected that he'll lie about jobs, too, in addition to being caught lying about carrying out the ALEC goal of union busting and removing fair pay for work laws.

[Riot]

Unfortunately, the true hate crazies start to come out of the woodwork and threaten violence as the recall election nears:

Federal authorities charged a Madison man Friday with making a telephone threat in February to blow up the offices of the Democratic Party of Wisconsin, among more than 100 calls he allegedly placed to the office this year.

William O. Diederich repeatedly threatened to shoot Democrats and those supporting the recall of Gov. Scott Walker in phone calls he made to the Democratic Party's office at 110 King St. in January, February and March, according to an affidavit by FBI agent Joseph Lavelle, filed in U.S. District Court in Madison.

http://host.madison.com/wsj/news/loc...9bb2963f4.html

[wiphan]

Originally Posted by Riot

Unfortunately, the true hate crazies start to come out of the woodwork and threaten violence as the recall election nears:

Don't worry he wil be thrown in jail for years, while the woman who threatened govenor walker and his family didn't even get a slap on the wrist.

Care to comment on how good old Tom didn't know where he was the day before when asked where he was when he didn't show up for a memorial for policemen who lost their lives while in the line of duty? Seems like a lot of out of state money coming in for Barrett. I don't see you complaining about this like you do with Walker.

Another question for you on the so called made up jobs numbers. If WI is losing jobs according to your accurate survey of 3.5% of businesses in the state than how did the unemployment rate continually drop?

[Riot]

Originally Posted by wiphan

Don't worry he wil be thrown in jail for years, while the woman who threatened govenor walker and his family didn't even get a slap on the wrist.

Care to comment on how good old Tom didn't know where he was the day before when asked where he was when he didn't show up for a memorial for policemen who lost their lives while in the line of duty? Seems like a lot of out of state money coming in for Barrett. I don't see you complaining about this like you do with Walker.

Another question for you on the so called made up jobs numbers. If WI is losing jobs according to your accurate survey of 3.5% of businesses in the state than how did the unemployment rate continually drop?

You alleged that Barrett's wife did, to quote you, something "illegal". Still waiting on you to say what that was. Was she arrested? What charges were filed?

Walker is a stone cold liar about Wisconsin jobs numbers, and about being an ALEC-owned poster boy. Just admit it. Feel free to vote for him, but at least be honest about what you are voting for.

[wiphan]

Originally Posted by Riot

You alleged that Barrett's wife did, to quote you, something "illegal". Still waiting on you to say what that was. Was she arrested? What charges were filed?

Walker is a stone cold liar about Wisconsin jobs numbers, and about being an ALEC-owned poster boy. Just admit it. Feel free to vote for him, but at least be honest about what you are voting for.

For someone who financial supports a candidate I would assume you would know what you are supporting. I personally do not financially support any politicians and save my money for real charities and causes that do good for people and society. Barrett's wife while working for MPS used her MPS email during government time and sent emails to politicians supporting the recall. This is in fact illegal. If she currently worked for MPS she would have had to be fired. She does not currently work there so nothing will become of it

Your answer to the above post was typical for you, skirt the question and attack. As far as the job numbers:

Fact- the original number from the department of labor statistics are taken from a survey of 3.5% of businesses in the state

Fact- WI's unemployment dropped in 2011

Fact- the current numbers released were taken from a sample of 96.5% of businesses in WI.

You can use the numbers any way you want them to, but how can the unemployment rate go down if we are losing jobs?

Face the facts. The democrats and Barrett have nothing left to campaign on

Collective Bargaining- majority of WI is with Walker on this and the democrats don't even really support this or Falk would have won

Jobs- real numbers show job growth in the state

Taxes, budget- improving, people are seeing it for themselves

Recalls- The majority of WI is sick of the recalls and the money it cost the state. The majority of WI is tired of sore losers. Recalls are meant for misconduct in office, not for someone who is against your beliefs

John Doe investigation- this is the Democrats last hope. They keep holding onto this because this is all they have. Do you know who requested the John Doe investigation originally? Oh yeah it was Govenor Walker himself

Barrett is a terrible candidate- latest blunder exploited him again. He will be crushed in the debates.

Now the liberal newspaper even came out in Mayor Barrett's back yard in support of the Govenor.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by wiphan

Barrett's wife while working for MPS used her MPS email during government time and sent emails to politicians supporting the recall. This is in fact illegal.

No. It is not "illegal". And you have grossly mischaracterized what she did. It was a simple violation of workplace rules. She sent two private e-mails from her work computer supporting political candidates unassociated with her husband or work. OH MY GOD!

Why you worry about this (sneaking your work computer to send two private e-mails) and you neglect to worry about the multiple felony arrests out of Walkers office for malfeasance is unbelievable.

There's a bit of cognitive dissonance here - do multiple felony arrests by the FBI over political misuse of government equipment and office space, literally feet from Walker's desk by more than one of his employees, worry you at all? Yes or no?

You can repeat Walker's false attempts to color his dismal and inadequate performance record, and pretend they are "facts", but that doesn't change the reality of it. The Bureau of Labor Statistics says clearly otherwise, and Walker using magic made-up methodology doesn't change it.

Seems that you are filled with alot of anger and hate over this. Vote for Walker. He's ahead right now. He may win. I certainly hope not. But a least he can't push through the ALEC agenda any more, with the recalls successful already in the legislature, and more pending.

If Barrett wins, will your excuse be that the Democrats cheated? <vbg>

[wiphan]

Originally Posted by Riot

No. It is not "illegal". And you have grossly mischaracterized what she did. It was a simple violation of workplace rules. She sent two private e-mails from her work computer supporting political candidates unassociated with her husband or work. OH MY GOD!

Why you worry about this (sneaking your work computer to send two private e-mails) and you neglect to worry about the multiple felony arrests out of Walkers office for malfeasance is unbelievable.

There's a bit of cognitive dissonance here - do multiple felony arrests by the FBI over political misuse of government equipment and office space, literally feet from Walker's desk by more than one of his employees, worry you at all? Yes or no?

You can repeat Walker's false attempts to color his dismal and inadequate performance record, and pretend they are "facts", but that doesn't change the reality of it. The Bureau of Labor Statistics says clearly otherwise, and Walker using magic made-up methodology doesn't change it.

Seems that you are filled with alot of anger and hate over this. Vote for Walker. He's ahead right now. He may win. I certainly hope not. But a least he can't push through the ALEC agenda any more, with the recalls successful already in the legislature, and more pending.

SKirt the questions again, huh? No hate or anger on my side.

Simply answer this question for me

How can the unemployment rate in the state of WI continually decline but yet the state lose 23k+ jobs?

[Riot]

Originally Posted by wiphan

SKirt the questions again, huh? No hate or anger on my side.

Simply answer this question for me

How can the unemployment rate in the state of WI continually decline but yet the state lose 23k+ jobs?

Simply answer this question for me: why are you not worried about multiple felony arrests of multiple employees out of Walker's office at his last government job?

Doesn't that raise some white flags for those worried about law breaking?

What about Walker being caught lying on video about his ALEC-given goal of union-busting? Doesn't lying outright to his constituents worry you?

Unemployment and jobs available are not mutually reflexive numbers completely and inversely dependent upon one another. You are relating two separate things. The long-term unemployed people are falling off the rolls and failing to be counted.

According to the Federal Bureau of Labor Statistics Wisconsin had the worse jobs numbers in the country for 2011. The real numbers just came out after Walker's faked press release numbers last week showing the real job loss was over 6,000 the past month.

At a time when Wisconsin's jobs statistics are under scrutiny as never before, preliminary data released Thursday showed that Wisconsin lost an estimated 6,200 private-sector jobs in April.

http://www.jsonline.com/business/sta...151909605.html