WI Governor Walker top aid under FBI investigation

[Riot]

Originally Posted by horseofcourse

I'm a full fledged socialist, where do I rank on the crazy meter?? Should I be committed to an institution?

I dunno. You source a serious threat for universal health care. And civil liberties for all.

Here's a great opinion piece by a college history teacher, talking about how his class was astounded to realize how seriously their 4th amendment rights (search and seizure, citizenship, voting, etc.) have been recently removed and eroded.

(That's right, Tea Party, your rights have been removed, in a very real manner, and you haven't even noticed, being distracted by shiny birth certificates and Muslim Communists dangled before you by GOP-TV)

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/0...ek?via=siderec

A good long piece, with specific examples and detail, but some excerpts:

On a whim, I mentioned that the Supreme Court had decided a few months ago that a warrant is no longer necessary for police to enter your home if they believe you might be destroying evidence (Kentucky v. King).

I pointed out the various ways in which all three kinds of citizenship are being eroded today, not just by fringy wingnuts, but by presidential candidates themselves, by Congress, and by the Supreme Court. Again, my students were astonished. They didn’t know about the Citizens United decision, which gave corporations more citizenship rights than individuals by allowing them to contribute unlimited amounts of money to campaigns. They didn’t know that another recent court decision prevents class-action lawsuits by workers against large corporations (Wal-Mart v. Dukes). They didn’t know that some state legislatures had passed laws this year preventing college students from voting in their college towns. They didn’t know that their own elected representatives had argued this summer on the floor of the House that poor women shouldn’t have access to abortion even in cases of rape, incest, or endangerment to the mother. They didn’t know about the efforts to eliminate Social Security and Medicare.

There was widespread alarm in the classroom. In fact, it got downright loud as students turned to each other and expressed their dismay—but that was a good thing. Sometimes I like it when my classroom gets loud. In this case it meant that my students were excited and talking about things they didn’t know before.

[Cannon Shell]

The "so called" Patriot act was passed by the Senate 98-1. Seems like a whole lot of Democratic Senators were tuned into GOP.tv that day.

What's funny is that an opinion piece in the Daily Kos was more balanced than basically any post by Riot. After reading the piece it seemed as though the writer purposely avoided holding a particular party (GOP 99% of the time in any Daily Kos piece) responsible as in his/her opinion the erosion of civil liberties has been occuring for a long time. Naturally this sentiment wasn't conveyed by Riots post. But hey thats what happens when you actually read the links.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

The "so called" Patriot act was passed by the Senate 98-1. Seems like a whole lot of Democratic Senators were tuned into GOP.tv that day.

What's funny is that an opinion piece in the Daily Kos was more balanced than basically any post by Riot. After reading the piece it seemed as though the writer purposely avoided holding a particular party (GOP 99% of the time in any Daily Kos piece) responsible as in his/her opinion the erosion of civil liberties has been occuring for a long time. Naturally this sentiment wasn't conveyed by Riots post. But hey thats what happens when you actually read the links.

LOL - and more balanced than any post by you, too Yes, I read the link, which is why I posted it. Even the part where I directly quoted the different sources of our removal of liberties (something you apparently didn't even notice before you attacked me for, you know, not doing that?)

I'm frankly surprised you read it at all, rather than dismiss it out-of-hand because it was posted on the KOS website. Good for you.

Yes, make the argument that the Democratic Party and those nasty "lefties" have been the ones spearheading the removal of our civil liberties generally. Wait, let me get some popcorn.

How Chuck's mind works:

Riot made a post link about how all of government is eroding our civil liberties.
Riot even quotes part of the post that says this.

But Chuck says Riot couldn't have read the post she posted, because Riot doesn't think all of government is eroding our civil liberties. Even though Riot just posted a post that said the opposite, and emphasized it.

In other words, no matter what I actually say or do, Chuck will freely attribute the opposite to me.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Riot

LOL - and more balanced than any post by you, too Yes, I read the link, which is why I posted it. Even the part where I directly quoted the different sources of our removal of liberties (something you apparently didn't even notice before you attacked me for, you know, not doing that?)

I'm frankly surprised you read it at all, rather than dismiss it out-of-hand because it was posted on the KOS website. Good for you.

Yes, make the argument that the Democratic Party and those nasty "lefties" have been the ones spearheading the removal of our civil liberties generally. Wait, let me get some popcorn.

98-1 in favor of the Patriot act.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

98-1 in favor of the Patriot act.

Yes, that was, you know, sort of the point I made with the link.

Duh.

We'll now let you tell us how the Democrats and those "lefties" are taking away our civil liberties: voting rights, abortion rights, unionization rights, worker protections, etc:













Crickets.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Riot

Yes, that was, you know, sort of the point I made with the link.

Duh.

We'll now let you tell us how the Democrats and those "lefties" are taking away our civil liberties: voting rights, abortion rights, unionization rights, worker protections, etc:













Crickets.

So the Democrats that voted for the Patroit act werent really Democrats or the Patriot act wasn't that bad? Has the head Democrat moved to repeal that? Oh thats right he hasn't.

Blame, blame, blame, rhetoric, rhetoric, rhetoric...

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

So the Democrats that voted for the Patroit act werent really Democrats or the Patriot act wasn't that bad? Has the head Democrat moved to repeal that? Oh thats right he hasn't.

Blame, blame, blame, rhetoric, rhetoric, rhetoric...

Nice straw man. Try again addressing the original question

Which parties are generally supportive of, and which are against: Glass-Steagel, Citizens United, abortion rights, voting rights, unionization rights, workers rights?

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Riot

Nice straw man. Try again addressing the original question

Which parties are generally supportive of, and which are against: Glass-Steagel, Citizens United, abortion rights, voting rights, unionization rights, workers rights?

Try addressing the fact that virtually every Democrat in Congress voted in favor of the single biggest infringement on civil rights in modern US history and an elected Democratic President with majorities in both the House and Senate did absolutely nothing about it.

Then cry me more of a river...

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Try addressing the fact that nearly all GOP, but only just over half the Dems in Congress, voted in favor of the single biggest infringement on civil rights in modern US history as perpetrated by a Republican President with majority in House and split Senate.

Then cry me more of a river...

FTFY

Patriot Act: good example. In the midst of war - while ground zero was still burning - which party more supported removing our civil liberties?

2001 House Vote:
Republican Yes: 211 No: 3
Democratic Yes: 145 No: 62
Independent: Yes: 1 1

Looks like the Republicans supported the Patriot Act noticeably more than the Democrats in the House.

2001 Senate Vote:
Republican Yes 49 No 0
Democratic Yes 49 No 1 Not voting 1

Now: what parties tend to support, and which tend to oppose, voting rights? Glass-Steagall? abortion rights? unionization rights? worker rights?

"70 years of progress, and we've been against all of it" - The Republican Party

[clyde]

Still the arguing of democrats and republicans.

Who's wrong, who's right,who's better, who's worse, one stole the letter---one stole the purse.



They do just what we hate the senate and house still do.


AWP!.....too late anyways.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Riot

FTFY

Patriot Act: good example. In the midst of war - while ground zero was still burning - which party more supported removing our civil liberties?

2001 House Vote:
Republican Yes: 211 No: 3
Democratic Yes: 145 No: 62
Independent: Yes: 1 1

Looks like the Republicans supported the Patriot Act noticeably more than the Democrats in the House.

2001 Senate Vote:
Republican Yes 49 No 0
Democratic Yes 49 No 1 Not voting 1

Now: what parties tend to support, and which tend to oppose, voting rights? Glass-Steagall? abortion rights? unionization rights? worker rights?

"70 years of progress, and we've been against all of it" - The Republican Party

Glass-Steagall? What does that have to do with rights unless you are a bank?
If unions supported political parties equally I'm sure they would see more GOP support. They are nothing but political activist/lobbying groups now and are in the pockets of the Dems. Abortion rights? Seriously? When was the last serious challenge to abortion? Workers rights? lol

Your take on political issues is so black and white it completely misses the mark, almost all the time

What party opposes businesses, successful people, white males, the 2nd amendment, most of the the 1st amendment (free speech via the fairness doctrine) (impeding the free exercise of religion), ect....

[Danzig]

i think what it comes down to is that both parties completely suck. they both have issues they suck less at, but they still suck just the same.
arguing abortion is like arguing gun rights. both are high emotion issues, neither will ever see significant changes. but both get people riled up so they ignore the real problems. and we have plenty of those to try to tackle, but no one will step up to the plate and tackle them. NO ONE. everyone in office is too chickensh!t to actually grab any bull by the horns, as they don't want to piss off a segment of voters and possibly lose re-election. it's all that matters to the pol and the party. keeping their seats. not jobs, not ss, medicare, etc, etc....elections. our 'leaders' are in permanent election mode-but there's a way to stop that.
but we know that won't happen.

[clyde]

Originally Posted by Danzig

i think what it comes down to is that both parties completely suck. they both have issues they suck less at, but they still suck just the same.
arguing abortion is like arguing gun rights. both are high emotion issues, neither will ever see significant changes. but both get people riled up so they ignore the real problems. and we have plenty of those to try to tackle, but no one will step up to the plate and tackle them. NO ONE. everyone in office is too chickensh!t to actually grab any bull by the horns, as they don't want to piss off a segment of voters and possibly lose re-election. it's all that matters to the pol and the party. keeping their seats. not jobs, not ss, medicare, etc, etc....elections. our 'leaders' are in permanent election mode-but there's a way to stop that.
but we know that won't happen.

That's the second time you have said a swell thing.

[Riot]

Your take on political issues is so black and white it completely misses the mark, almost all the time

I think you have successfully pointed out several times in this thread how wrong you are. Thank you for contradicting yourself to disprove your own point

What party opposes businesses, successful people, white males, the 2nd amendment, most of the the 1st amendment (free speech via the fairness doctrine) (impeding the free exercise of religion), ect...

Why don't you list specific examples? I'm especially interested in democratic opposition to those poor, oppressed white males? And point out how that party opposes business and success. And doesn't support the second amendment. Use reality, not just "what you think".

Abortion rights? Seriously? When was the last serious challenge to abortion? Workers rights? lol

You are seriously ignorant. Try looking at what bills have been presented in the current Congress. The second effing bill introduced into the current House session encompassed sweeping and major abortion law changes. Try looking at state law changes in the past year. Jeesus effing cripes. You think there has been no serious challenge to abortion? Or workers rights? Do you pay zero attention to current politics at all? I can only assume that's true. That foolish statement should ban you from posting in politics. People like you - paying no political attention whatsoever - are why this country is in the hell it's in right now. Another vote for Sarah Palin.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Danzig

i think what it comes down to is that both parties completely suck. they both have issues they suck less at, but they still suck just the same.

If somebody thinks that both of the current political parties, and all politicians, are of the same suckiness and thus interchangable, I'd say they are definitely not paying attention.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Riot

If somebody thinks that both of the current political parties, and all politicians, are of the same suckiness and thus interchangable, I'd say they are definitely not paying attention.

and i'd say if anyone thinks some of the pols are doing a good job, they need to take off their rose colored glasses.
i pay plenty of attention. i'm not enamored of any of them, and thus able to applaud if/when they come up with a good idea...not that it matters, that town operates on a you scratch my back/i will scratch yours basis. people go there with the best of intentions, but they quickly adapt. the party rules the roost. the pols pay attention and follow the party line, else they don't get support in the next primary, ala joe liebermann. just like i have no doubt that obama quickly had things explained to him after his 'i will do what's right, even if i only have one term' line.

i keep my expecations low for a reason...never disappointed, almost never amazed.

[Danzig]

i think it's interesting that the patriot act is brought up with regards to the senate voting record, and instead of conceding the point, riot starts talking about everything except that senate vote...
the fact is that although on occasion, dems seem more inclined to support an individuals rights, you still have that vote referenced above, and of course a democratic president signing the defense of marriage act into law.
for votes, of course. not because the dems wanted to protect rights, but to protect their own phoney baloney jobs.

[dellinger63]

Originally Posted by horseofcourse

I'm a full fledged socialist, where do I rank on the crazy meter?? Should I be committed to an institution?

No but if you're a socialist, registered as a republican and find George Costanza of Seinfeld, attractive. You should hook up with Riot.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Danzig

i think it's interesting that the patriot act is brought up with regards to the senate voting record, and instead of conceding the point, riot starts talking about everything except that senate vote...

LOL - what imaginary posts are you reading? No. I actually listed the House and Senate vote results. Just to show how Chuck's statement "virtually every Democrat in Congress" shouldn't be conceded, because it's simply demonstrably wrong.

How in the world is listing the actual votes (disproving Chuck's claim) "talking about everything except that vote"??? That's a crazy statement.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by dellinger63

No but if you're a socialist, registered as a republican and find George Costanza of Seinfeld, attractive. You should hook up with Riot.

If you think I'm a Socialist, you're even more clueless about what the word means than I thought