You make the call.. Classic or Mile for Wise Dan?

[King Glorious]

Originally Posted by my miss storm cat

Respectfully, I was just wondering if any of you fine gentlemen have changed your mind(s).

I stand by what I said. This horse is a star and could help to market the sport.

If you still think I'm insane that's fine but really... are any of you seeing this at all?

Not at all. Nobody disputed the fact that he's a good horse but I don't see him at all as a star. Maybe if they ran him in higher profile races but what they are doing is like saying they have the best player in the league but playing him in the minors instead of the majors.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by King Glorious

Not at all. Nobody disputed the fact that he's a good horse but I don't see him at all as a star. Maybe if they ran him in higher profile races but what they are doing is like saying they have the best player in the league but playing him in the minors instead of the majors.

wise dan's wins are minor league? oh boy.

[cakes44]

Was Goldikova "minor league"?

[my miss storm cat]

Originally Posted by randallscott35

Yes I think he is a really special horse. I don't know how that would help market the sport.

Come on I could come up with a good campaign and so could you!

Originally Posted by cakes44

Yep, pretty sure POE was scratched because they knew he was going to blow the doors off Wise Dan that day and they just felt bad for him.

Originally Posted by King Glorious

Not at all. Nobody disputed the fact that he's a good horse but I don't see him at all as a star. Maybe if they ran him in higher profile races but what they are doing is like saying they have the best player in the league but playing him in the minors instead of the majors.

I love you and miss our Silent Witness debates.

Originally Posted by Danzig

wise dan's wins are minor league? oh boy.

Originally Posted by cakes44

Was Goldikova "minor league"?

KIngie isn't on but I can totally answer this for him. NO Goldikova was a great, should have been HOY in fact (I am answering for him or in his stead until he returns)...

Ask him about Makybe Diva or any HK legend (Silent Witness, Vengeance of Rain, Sacred Kingdom, Good Ba Ba, Bullish Luck et al)... to the best of my recollection Black Caviar has a good chance of being in this category as well.

[King Glorious]

Originally Posted by cakes44

Was Goldikova "minor league"?

I obviously don't mean every single race has been a minor league race. But I ask you, is the Firecracker or Fourstardave really major league?

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by King Glorious

I obviously don't mean every single race has been a minor league race. But I ask you, is the Firecracker or Fourstardave really major league?

Have you seen the fields in the so-called major league races lately?

The funny thing is that if he were a Euro horse no one would even question him running in the mile again.

[King Glorious]

Two good points. I would counter by saying that at least I can you run in the top races, nobody can accuse you of taking the easy way out. And I know in general you're right about the European thing but I don't think this is a comparable situation. With a Euro, Goldikova, for instance, she hadn't run on other surfaces so she's would be asked to do something she'd never done. Not so with Wise Dan.

[Calzone Lord]

Ever since Wise Dan was 4th in the Shadwell Mile on turf, he's been a much improved horse and has done nothing except run top class races.

His Stephen Foster was a much better race than he's ever run on dirt, and it was MUCH better than his easy win in the "Grade 1" Clark, which was his two-back dirt race.

Anyone who thinks Ron The Greek ran as well as Wise Dan in the Foster, probably still believes Golden Soul is way better than Palace Malice, Oxbow, and Verrazano.

Fort Larned had virtually the exact same trip as Wise Dan did in the Foster, and Fort Larned finished a long way last ... and he "recaptured his form" off of two-weeks rest after the Foster debacle.

No one likes to categorize race horses as specialists any more than I do, I'm a big believer in it, still, I'm not sold Wise Dan is a specialist in terms of surface.

Watch his Foster again, it was a +19 and note that both he and Fort Larned caused each other plenty of trouble before the first turn. When horses get impeded while chasing a loose leader who is going too fast, they don't run representative races.

It's a very specific and circumstantial sort of troubled trip that doesn't happen very often throughout the country, and one that isn't easy to identify without good figures ... but such horses are great next-out bets because those type of performances discourage everyone from bettors, to the horses human connections, to the human connection of rival horses.

The BC Classic is the wrong spot for Wise Dan. He's not going to last ten furlongs in a race with so many high-quality similar running style types like Game On Dude, Fort Larned, Cross Traffic, Palace Malice, Verrezano, etc.

Still, he's a much better dirt horse than a whole lot of very smart people think, IMO.