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  #101  
Old 06-27-2012, 07:59 AM
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It's threads like these that make you wish Morty was back
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  #102  
Old 06-27-2012, 08:37 AM
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dude.. Riot. After this thread you should never bash dell again.
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Can I start just making stuff up out of thin air, too?
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  #103  
Old 06-27-2012, 08:41 AM
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Originally Posted by geeker2 View Post
It's threads like these that make you wish Morty was back
it's ridiculous, an obvious attempt to smear someone who wasn't even involved with the suit, or the horse.

but hey, it's obviously THE number one thing to worry about. not the economy, not wars, drone strikes, ndaa, unemployment, fast and furious, banking, housing, etc, etc.
witch hunts are sooo much more fun, and a distraction from all that really ails us. but why worry about what affects us all? rather, go after a woman who isn't a candidate, who was removed from the suit-how dare she be rich and ride horses. and this topic, on a website devoted to following a sport involving rich people with horses.
it is hilarious when you really start thinking about it. here, look at the jingly keys!
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  #104  
Old 06-27-2012, 09:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Danzig View Post
it's ridiculous, an obvious attempt to smear someone who wasn't even involved with the suit, or the horse.

but hey, it's obviously THE number one thing to worry about. not the economy, not wars, drone strikes, ndaa, unemployment, fast and furious, banking, housing, etc, etc.
witch hunts are sooo much more fun, and a distraction from all that really ails us. but why worry about what affects us all? rather, go after a woman who isn't a candidate, who was removed from the suit-how dare she be rich and ride horses. and this topic, on a website devoted to following a sport involving rich people with horses.
it is hilarious when you really start thinking about it. here, look at the jingly keys!
Ziggy I CAN'T BELIEVE you hate Obama more than you love Horseys!!

She's pulled that out about a half a dozen times in this thread
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  #105  
Old 06-27-2012, 09:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Danzig View Post
it's ridiculous, an obvious attempt to smear someone who wasn't even involved with the suit, or the horse.

but hey, it's obviously THE number one thing to worry about. not the economy, not wars, drone strikes, ndaa, unemployment, fast and furious, banking, housing, etc, etc.
witch hunts are sooo much more fun, and a distraction from all that really ails us. but why worry about what affects us all? rather, go after a woman who isn't a candidate, who was removed from the suit-how dare she be rich and ride horses. and this topic, on a website devoted to following a sport involving rich people with horses.
it is hilarious when you really start thinking about it. here, look at the jingly keys!
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  #106  
Old 06-27-2012, 01:44 PM
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RE: "Payoff the filer," "in exchange for reimbursement of the sale price of the horse." Do you have any proof, or are you speculating? How do you know that there was a settlement "at the request of the Romneys?" How do you know that the filer didn't simply decide that she didn't have a good case against them? And IF they were "paying off" the filer, why wouldn't a confidentiality agreement have been a part of any settlement? More likely the absence of an agreement that the Romneys supposedly sought indicates that there was no payoff.
The statements of the horse owner, and of her lawyer, and of opposing lawyers, publicly, combined with what ultimately happened to the horse.

Continuing to say, "Ann Romney wasn't involved in the suit" shows undeniable ignorance of how the lawsuit, after 18-months of going through the court system, and days from going before a judge with a jury trial, was settled.
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  #107  
Old 06-27-2012, 01:51 PM
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I dont think anyone is denying that Ann Romney's name at one time was on the currently resolved lawsuit.

The problem with this thread starts with the title of the thread... which is disingenuous at best.. and an outright lie at worst.

Mitt Romney was not involved in this lawsuit, and it wasnt even his own horse!

end of story.
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Can I start just making stuff up out of thin air, too?
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  #108  
Old 06-27-2012, 01:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Antitrust32 View Post
I dont think anyone is denying that Ann Romney's name at one time was on the currently resolved lawsuit.

The problem with this thread starts with the title of the thread... which is disingenuous at best.. and an outright lie at worst.

Mitt Romney was not involved in this lawsuit, and it wasnt even his own horse!

end of story.
Mitt Romney pays the bills, takes the horses as a deduction on his joint return as an owner in the Romney "horse farm business", benefited from the profit from the sale, gave the trainer the loan to purchase the land that the Romney's have a house upon (the farm) on the west coast, hired the trainer, pays his salary, continues to work intimately with the trainer as an employee.

The Romneys made $20,000 profit over their original purchase price by selling the lame, but doped sound, horse with ringbone. Excellent horse business deal.

And after the lawsuit, the Romneys still support this trainer.
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  #109  
Old 06-27-2012, 02:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Rudeboyelvis View Post
Ziggy I CAN'T BELIEVE you hate Obama more than you love Horseys!!

She's pulled that out about a half a dozen times in this thread
i don't hate obama. and i don't care what she says, and enjoy not being able to read her drivel.
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  #110  
Old 06-27-2012, 03:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Danzig View Post
i don't hate obama. and i don't care what she says, and enjoy not being able to read her drivel.
I know, just joking...
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  #111  
Old 06-27-2012, 03:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Riot View Post
The statements of the horse owner, and of her lawyer, and of opposing lawyers, publicly, combined with what ultimately happened to the horse.

Continuing to say, "Ann Romney wasn't involved in the suit" shows undeniable ignorance of how the lawsuit, after 18-months of going through the court system, and days from going before a judge with a jury trial, was settled.
Where are these statements published? I would like to read them so that I might be "ignorant" no more.
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  #112  
Old 06-27-2012, 03:54 PM
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Originally Posted by OldDog View Post
Where are these statements published? I would like to read them so that I might be "ignorant" no more.
Good grief? why start now? You've already offered your opinion, apparently before reading what has been publicly available on the subject. As have many others on this thread

I posted a couple links with link-throughs and detailed info at the start of the thread, and a simple google gives much information. The expert witness testimony, and parts of Ann Romneys deposition.

You know - for those folks that want information before they make up their minds

Maybe one of the highly-educated lawyers around here could offer an opinion on what the "Defendant Sanctions" the judge placed upon Romney and her trainer could involve? I seriously don't know - what type of stuff gets a judge angry enough to sanction the defendants before the jury trial occurs?

Why did the defendant's lawyer try to get the suing party to sign "keep silent" agreements? (refused)

Or, we can discuss what Thoroughbred racing and sport horse owners should do, when they have a lame horse, uninsured for that lamness, that can no longer do their job, and their trainer/legal agent sells the animal for them as "sound", but then the owner is sued as the horse actually was not sound, ends up not being able to do the work as alleged when sold, and was found to be loaded with multiple painkillers during the sale. What should that owner do? Should they stick with that trainer? Enjoy the $20K profit and say "suck it, buyer" and settle out of court? Fire the trainer and make the sale right with the buyer?
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  #113  
Old 06-27-2012, 04:03 PM
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Caveat Emptor.
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  #114  
Old 06-27-2012, 04:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Clip-Clop View Post
Caveat Emptor.
That's how and why the seller got caught drugging the horse

How about this situation?

A race horse owner has a $100,000 allowance/grade 3 level horse. It has developed a coffin joint abnormality that had made it chronically, worsening lame (cannot be "fixed). That lameness has decreased it's performance, caused tendon problems in the other front leg due to the horse trying to avoid the sore foot. It has required regular steroid injections into the joint to keep the horse sound, but it's performance has deteriorated as expected with that problem, and it hasn't been able to run for a year. It's clear the horse has ringbone in the lower coffin joint. The horse isn't insured for loss of use due to ringbone. As the ringbone worsens, the horse will quickly be a pasture ornament. That's the only option for worsening, severe low ringbone.

Should that horse be sold privately as a $125,000 allowance/Grade 3 level horse, with the seller actively denying there are any known factors limiting it's performance at that level? The seller literally calls the horse, "the soundest horse in the barn". Even when the seller's agent is asked specifically about specific problems, the agent/trainer lies to the buyer.

What about the owner who uses the trainer as their legal selling agent. The trainer dopes the horse up with four painkillers to make it sound for the sale. And sells the horse for $20,000 more than they originally purchased the horse for.

Is the owner legally liable when the fraud is discovered?

What about the veterinarian doing the local prepurchase exam? (drawing blood and rads) Referred by the seller? The vet tells the buyer that the radiographic ringbone abnormalities are "cosmetic only and of no consequence to the intended use" (a clear lie). When the positive drug tests come back, the veterinarian calls, not the purchaser, but the owner via the owner's agent (trainer) to let them know the bad result. Vet denies giving 2 of the painkillers found. Trainer denies giving two of the painkillers found.

Should the owner continue using that trainer?

The new owner left the horse with the original trainer. The horse continues to move funny, be lame off and on, and cannot be used at the allowance level - or any level. The trainer blames the gallop riders of the horse for making the horse "move funny" to the owners eye.

The owner hires another vet to obtain all the horses documented medical history, and discovers everything said about the horse they purchased was a lie.
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Last edited by Riot : 06-27-2012 at 04:25 PM.
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  #115  
Old 06-27-2012, 04:49 PM
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Where are these statements published? I would like to read them so that I might be "ignorant" no more.
thou shalt not feed thy trolls.
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  #116  
Old 06-27-2012, 04:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Rudeboyelvis View Post
I know, just joking...
i figured...but some on here would think i really did hate him, so a reminder once in a while doesn't hurt!
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  #117  
Old 06-27-2012, 05:07 PM
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thou shalt not feed thy trolls.
I'm no more a troll than you are demonstrating in this thread, 'Zig. "How dare she be rich and ride horses. and this topic, on a website devoted to following a sport involving rich people with horses". That's nothing but baloney troll - because nobody on this thread has attacked Romney for being rich or riding horses, especially me. Just like nobody here thinks this is "the number one thing to worry about".

You like posting inflammatory stuff nobody has said?

You don't want to discuss the doping of horses - and those associated with it, especially when it's the trainer of a presidential candidate when selling the candidate's wife's horse - stay off the thread.
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  #118  
Old 06-28-2012, 07:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Riot View Post
Good grief? why start now? You've already offered your opinion, apparently before reading what has been publicly available on the subject. As have many others on this thread

I posted a couple links with link-throughs and detailed info at the start of the thread, and a simple google gives much information. The expert witness testimony, and parts of Ann Romneys deposition.

You know - for those folks that want information before they make up their minds
BS You posted a link to one testimony, with a link to the NYT article that I quoted, to which you responded
Quote:
Read the actual complaint. Not a synopsis by a reporter.
Okay, where is the complaint? I've asked you for more information and asked you your sources for statements that you've made that aren't in your link, but you haven't provided them. I've searched for more information, but all I find are variations of the NYT article and web blog posts. I'm finished searching for links to substantiate your claims.

Links. Post them if you want anyone here to believe that your initial post was anything more than a smear attempt. Otherwise it's just more politically motivated BS.
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  #119  
Old 06-28-2012, 08:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Riot View Post
That's how and why the seller got caught drugging the horse

How about this situation?

A race horse owner has a $100,000 allowance/grade 3 level horse. It has developed a coffin joint abnormality that had made it chronically, worsening lame (cannot be "fixed). That lameness has decreased it's performance, caused tendon problems in the other front leg due to the horse trying to avoid the sore foot. It has required regular steroid injections into the joint to keep the horse sound, but it's performance has deteriorated as expected with that problem, and it hasn't been able to run for a year. It's clear the horse has ringbone in the lower coffin joint. The horse isn't insured for loss of use due to ringbone. As the ringbone worsens, the horse will quickly be a pasture ornament. That's the only option for worsening, severe low ringbone.

Should that horse be sold privately as a $125,000 allowance/Grade 3 level horse, with the seller actively denying there are any known factors limiting it's performance at that level? The seller literally calls the horse, "the soundest horse in the barn". Even when the seller's agent is asked specifically about specific problems, the agent/trainer lies to the buyer.

What about the owner who uses the trainer as their legal selling agent. The trainer dopes the horse up with four painkillers to make it sound for the sale. And sells the horse for $20,000 more than they originally purchased the horse for.

Is the owner legally liable when the fraud is discovered?

What about the veterinarian doing the local prepurchase exam? (drawing blood and rads) Referred by the seller? The vet tells the buyer that the radiographic ringbone abnormalities are "cosmetic only and of no consequence to the intended use" (a clear lie). When the positive drug tests come back, the veterinarian calls, not the purchaser, but the owner via the owner's agent (trainer) to let them know the bad result. Vet denies giving 2 of the painkillers found. Trainer denies giving two of the painkillers found.

Should the owner continue using that trainer?

The new owner left the horse with the original trainer. The horse continues to move funny, be lame off and on, and cannot be used at the allowance level - or any level. The trainer blames the gallop riders of the horse for making the horse "move funny" to the owners eye.

The owner hires another vet to obtain all the horses documented medical history, and discovers everything said about the horse they purchased was a lie.
Once you buy something it is yours and you deal with it. If you didnt do your homework or research correctly that is your problem. Falls under the personal responsibility theory the courts are very diligently removing.
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  #120  
Old 06-28-2012, 09:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Clip-Clop View Post
Once you buy something it is yours and you deal with it. If you didnt do your homework or research correctly that is your problem. Falls under the personal responsibility theory the courts are very diligently removing.


But then of course she couldn't take 6 pages of posts to smear a guy who most likely had no idea whatsoever that he even owned the friggin horse in the first place, much less connived a scheme with a vet to purposely unload damaged goods.
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