When "Neighborhood Watch" Gets Out of Hand

[jms62]

Originally Posted by bigrun

Saw that report on ABC eve news...The medical report was done the morning after...the video shot of him the nite of the shooting show no head wound and no blood...

Police report will clearly show what he looked like. Pretty cut and dry if you ask me.

[Clip-Clop]

All that will matter in the end is the ME report on Martin, was the shot fired from 6" or 4' (distances are estimated). That will determine in the minds of the jury what was happening 6" they were fighting and not guilty, 4' he shot the kid to kill him and guilty.

Originally Posted by Clip-Clop

was the shot fired from 6" or 4'

I thought I read that there were powder burns found on the victim's body or clothing, so the question is moot, no?

I do agree with you that IF the prosecution has evidence to suggest the shot came from a distance, their case would be winnable. As it is, Z walks.

[Clip-Clop]

Originally Posted by Ocala Mike

I thought I read that there were powder burns found on the victim's body or clothing, so the question is moot, no?

I do agree with you that IF the prosecution has evidence to suggest the shot came from a distance, their case would be winnable. As it is, Z walks.

I did not read that anywhere if it was made available but I pretty much stopped following closely shortly after the charges were filed. At that point I figured he would walk.

[OldDog]

Originally Posted by Clip-Clop

All that will matter in the end is the ME report on Martin, was the shot fired from 6" or 4' (distances are estimated). That will determine in the minds of the jury what was happening 6" they were fighting and not guilty, 4' he shot the kid to kill him and guilty.

I think this could be spun either way. Playing devil's advocate, if a person has been involved in a physical confrontation with another, and the two become separated (perhaps by the first person either throwing the second backward, or by the first person retreating) but the second person charges, does the first person wait for more physical contact before shooting or does he shoot while the second person charges?

Just thayin, it could be manipulated both ways, and undoubtably would be.

[Riot]

George Zimmerman took a gun and followed an innocent man, Trayvon Martin. That's why Martin is dead by Zimmerman's gun, and everyone here knows it. When does the trial start, have they picked a day yet?

[OldDog]

Originally Posted by Riot

George Zimmerman took a gun and followed an innocent man, Trayvon Martin. That's why Martin is dead by Zimmerman's gun, and everyone here knows it.

Everyone here has an opinion. As to Zimmerman's guilt or innocence as charged, I for one would like to hear the facts as they are presented in a trial, before I give mine.

Originally Posted by Riot

When does the trial start, have they picked a day yet?

I don't know, and am in no hurry to see the riots which (in my opinion) will ensue when the verdict is announced, no matter what the verdict might be.

[MaTH716]

Originally Posted by OldDog

Everyone here has an opinion. As to Zimmerman's guilt or innocence as charged, I for one would like to hear the facts as they are presented in a trial, before I give mine.

Facts, Shmacts.

Riot says he's guilty and we all know that she's never wrong, so let's just skip the court case and just fry the bastard......................

[Riot]

Originally Posted by MaTH716

Facts, Shmacts.

Riot says he's guilty and we all know that she's never wrong, so let's just skip the court case and just fry the bastard......................

No. I have not said he's guilty. I've said IMO the evidence was overwhelming that he needed to be charged, and that once he was arrested and charged, I have said I was happy to let the court system decide that.

[OldDog]

Originally Posted by MaTH716

Facts, Shmacts.

Riot says he's guilty and we all know that she's never wrong, so let's just skip the court case and just fry the bastard......................

Either the prosecution has evidence of which we yet have no knowledge, or they screwed up by not going for manslaughter instead of murder, which is why I'm waiting for the facts as presented in a trial.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by OldDog

Everyone here has an opinion. As to Zimmerman's guilt or innocence as charged, I for one would like to hear the facts as they are presented in a trial, before I give mine.

My statement didn't go to Zimmerman's trial results (technical guilt or innocence), but the obvious fact that if Zimmerman had not been carrying a loaded gun, and paid attention to Martin, Martin would not be dead.

Zimmerman wasn't even on "neighborhood watch", he was on his way to Target. His mere presence and loaded gun started the events of the night that ended with Martin's death.

I don't know, and am in no hurry to see the riots which (in my opinion) will ensue when the verdict is announced, no matter what the verdict might be.

I think the family has dampened that down alot. Most people simply wanted a trial, including the family. There will always be those anarchists and violence-junkies that will use any excuse to riot.

[OldDog]

Originally Posted by Riot

My statement didn't go to Zimmerman's trial results (technical guilt or innocence), but the obvious fact that if Zimmerman had not been carrying a loaded gun, and paid attention to Martin, Martin would not be dead.

Zimmerman wasn't even on "neighborhood watch", he was on his way to Target. His mere presence and loaded gun started the events of the night that ended with Martin's death.

Sorry I misunderstood your post, then. I too thought that you were pronouncing Zimmerman guilty.

Yes, Zimmerman was carrying a gun, and it is accepted that he followed Martin. So far, nothing illegal done there. The questions - and I'm wondering what evidence will be presented to answer them - are who initiated physical contact, how it escalated, and also whether Zimmerman attempted to withdraw from contact once it began. In reading opinions on Florida law, it seems that Zimmerman could have a good case for self-defense even if he initially provoked the confrontation. But then, as I said, I'm giving this opinion without benefit of all the facts.

[jms62]

Originally Posted by OldDog

I think this could be spun either way. Playing devil's advocate, if a person has been involved in a physical confrontation with another, and the two become separated (perhaps by the first person either throwing the second backward, or by the first person retreating) but the second person charges, does the first person wait for more physical contact before shooting or does he shoot while the second person charges?

Just thayin, it could be manipulated both ways, and undoubtably would be.

Agree... 4 Feet could mean you shot someone rushing to attack you where 6 inches could be an execution.

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by Clip-Clop

All that will matter in the end is the ME report on Martin, was the shot fired from 6" or 4' (distances are estimated). That will determine in the minds of the jury what was happening 6" they were fighting and not guilty, 4' he shot the kid to kill him and guilty.

There was an article about this. I posted the link earlier in the thread. It said the shot came at extremely close range. There were gun powder burns on Trayvon's sweatshirt and on his skin.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

There was an article about this. I posted the link earlier in the thread. It said the shot came at extremely close range. There were gun powder burns on Trayvon's sweatshirt and on his skin.

Florida teenager Trayvon Martin died from a single gunshot wound to the chest fired from “intermediate range,” according to an autopsy report reviewed Wednesday by NBC News.

But they don't say what "intermediate" range is. Not touching skin or clothes?

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by Riot

But they don't say what "intermediate" range is. Not touching skin or clothes?

I assumed that the powder burns on the skin and clothes meant that the shot was fired from just a few inches. I thought the article I posted said it was extremely close range. I will have to go back and find the article.

[Antitrust32]

http://www.officer.com/news/10719063...tely-avoidable

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by Antitrust32

http://www.officer.com/news/10719063...tely-avoidable

There is no argument there. We know that if Zimmerman didn't get out of his car and follow Martin that the incident wouldn't have happened. But that is irrelevant in terms of the law. If a woman goes over to a stranger's apartment and gets raped, sure it is true that the rape was ultimately avoidable if the woman would have used better judgement and not gone to a stranger's apartment. That may be true but it is totally irrelevant in terms of the law. A woman's bad judgement doesn't make it legal for a guy to rape her. Zimmerman did not engage in any unlawful behavior. It is not a crime to follow someone. It is not a crime to carry a gun in Florida if you have a permit. Zimmerman used bad judgement but he didn't break any laws.

Zimmerman was doing a very aggressive version of neighborhood watch. It wasn't very smart but it wasn't a crime.

The incident was ultimately avoidable if Martin would have called the police about a suspicious person following him. You can't take the law into your own hands and physically assault a person just because you are pissed that they were following you for a little while.

http://www.nydailynews.com/opinion/d...icle-1.1080161

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by Riot

But they don't say what "intermediate" range is. Not touching skin or clothes?

I found the article. Here is what it says:

"How close, asked the judge, was the gun to the victim when it was fired?"

"So close, said Gilbreath, that there were burns on Trayvon's sweat shirt and skin."

I would think that means that the gun was within a few inches of Martin.

http://southflorida.sun-sentinel.com...3.story?page=2

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by Riot

But they don't say what "intermediate" range is. Not touching skin or clothes?

"The gunshot wound entrance was from a bullet fired from "intermediate range," or two-to-four inches, "a soot ring abrasion and a two-inch by two-inch area of stippling" on his body."

In addition, the article says that Martin had an abrasion on his knuckle.

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/...152333240.html