NYTHA Lasix Primer & Letter to NYS RWB

[cmorioles]

Originally Posted by Antitrust32

...the majority of the time these Euro's ARE using lasix... so again no conclusion can be reached.

That does nothing to heal previous damage, unless I'm misunderstanding the properties of this miracle drug.

Your assertion that lung damage does affect performance, just not enough to make our horses win, doesn't really hold up under scrutiny. Races over long distances are decided by very small distances. Even a tiny decrease in performance would cost a horse a few lengths. Maybe if horses raced a hundred times it would start to be a factor, but they don't.

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

That does nothing to heal previous damage, unless I'm misunderstanding the properties of this miracle drug.

Your assertion that lung damage does affect performance, just not enough to make our horses win, doesn't really hold up under scrutiny. Races over long distances are decided by very small distances. Even a tiny decrease in performance would cost a horse a few lengths. Maybe if horses raced a hundred times it would start to be a factor, but they don't.

so the fact that euro's train on lasix means nothing to you?

You are reaching conclusions through information that you are just assuming.

[cmorioles]

Originally Posted by Antitrust32

so the fact that euro's train on lasix means nothing to you?

You are reaching conclusions through information that you are just assuming.

Most of them don't train on Lasix.

[Antitrust32]

questions that i have with regards to bleeding.

In theory, could dirt racing cause a horse to bleed more often than turf racing? with all the kickback in dirt racing.. could dirt or dust go into the horses lungs and cause it to bleed when maybe it wouldnt?

Also.. would sprinters be more inclined to bleed than distance horses? Could putting maximum effort through a 6 or 7 furlong race be more taxing than galloping along with a full out sprint at the end in a distance race?

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Antitrust32

questions that i have with regards to bleeding.

In theory, could dirt racing cause a horse to bleed more often than turf racing? with all the kickback in dirt racing.. could dirt or dust go into the horses lungs and cause it to bleed when maybe it wouldnt?

No. Foreign body inhalation (although yes, that occurs, and worse on dirt than turf) does not cause Exercise Induced Pulmonary Hemorrhage. Particles of dirt and dust cannot physically enter the parts of the lung (the alveolar-capillary interface) where EIPH occurs. They are too big.

EIPH is thought to be caused mainly by huge pressure differences that occur during maximal exercise between the capillaries of the lung (oxygenation) blood system and the alveoli (air sacs) in the lungs, and physical damage (sheer) in the dorsocaudal lung lobes due to forelegs pounding during intense exercise.

Also.. would sprinters be more inclined to bleed than distance horses? Could putting maximum effort through a 6 or 7 furlong race be more taxing than galloping along with a full out sprint at the end in a distance race?

Yes. More intense exercise, maximal respiratory effort by the horse, is associated directly with EIPH.

A hard dirt track seems to induce more EIPH than a soft turf course, but that's observational. EIPH is associated with maximal respiratory effort and physical pounding, no matter the discipline, hemisphere or breed of horse.

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by Riot

No. Foreign body inhalation (although yes, that occurs, and worse on dirt than turf) does not cause Exercise Induced Pulmonary Hemorrhage. Particles of dirt and dust cannot physically enter the parts of the lung (the alveolar-capillary interface) where EIPH occurs. They are too big.

Small airway disease resulting from inhalation of environmental contaminants is not thought to cause or exacerbate EIPH?

[Riot]

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

Small airway disease resulting from inhalation of environmental contaminants is not thought to cause or exacerbate EIPH?

Yes, small airway disease such as chronic inflammation, allergy does exacerbate EIPH. Yes, environmental contaminants (air pollution, ammonia in air from stall, chronic dust in air from straw/hay) can cause small airway disease.

Dirt in the airways from inhalation racing doesn't get down to the bronchioles, let alone alveoli. It stays in the first 4 generations of lung branching (in the trachea and major bronchi) and is readily moved up and out by cilliary action in most cases. Not a big contributor to airway inflammation. Just like dirt inhaled into your nose when you dirt bike or run in a dusty place is snotted out readily, and doesn't give you an asthma attack. Dust in the air doesn't get down there, either. A particle has to be particular micron size to make it down there. Nature's design is good.

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by Antitrust32

so the fact that euro's train on lasix means nothing to you?

You are reaching conclusions through information that you are just assuming.

What percentage of Euro horses train on lasix? I bet you it is an extremely low percentage. In the US, there is a small percentage of trainers that train practically all their horses on lasix. I'm sure there are a few trainers over in Europe that do this too, but I can guarantee you that it is not a large percent.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

That does nothing to heal previous damage, unless I'm misunderstanding the properties of this miracle drug.

Your assertion that lung damage does affect performance, just not enough to make our horses win, doesn't really hold up under scrutiny. Races over long distances are decided by very small distances. Even a tiny decrease in performance would cost a horse a few lengths. Maybe if horses raced a hundred times it would start to be a factor, but they don't.

So lung damage doesnt decrease performance? Are you really going to stand behind that statement?

[cmorioles]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

So lung damage doesnt decrease performance? Are you really going to stand behind that statement?

If it does, then these horses shipping in from Europe that don't race with Lasix over there don't have any.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

If it does, then these horses shipping in from Europe that don't race with Lasix over there don't have any.

This makes no sense. Where was it said that all horses would incur lung tissue damage w/o lasix? Why are european shippers being held up as some sort of standard when they make up a miniscule number of the entire population?