NYTHA Lasix Primer & Letter to NYS RWB

[Calzone Lord]

Originally Posted by Riot

Lasix is an extremely safe drug with a wide margin of safety. How are the 7% of horses that suffer no EIPH harmed by receiving lasix?

I'm talking in terms of performance on the racetrack.

If a drug benefits members of your competition more than it benefits you ... it brings you closer together and you lose a performance edge.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Calzone Lord

I'm talking in terms of performance on the racetrack.

If a (fill in the blank) benefits members of your competition more than it benefits you ... it brings you closer together and you lose a performance edge.

Certain bits, certain shoes, leg wraps, blinkers and hoods, FLAIR strips all benefit some horses more than others.

Do you think lasix is a therapeutic drug, or not?

[Calzone Lord]

Originally Posted by Riot

Certain bits, certain shoes, leg wraps, blinkers and hoods, FLAIR strips all benefit some horses more than others.

I never said some equipment like bits, blinkers, and types of shoes don't benefit some horses more than others in situations.

Originally Posted by Riot

Do you think lasix is a therapeutic drug, or not?

You're asking the wrong person.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Calzone Lord

I never said some equipment like bits, blinkers, and types of shoes don't benefit some horses more than others in situations.

Good, because I never said you did

[Calzone Lord]

Originally Posted by Riot

Good, because I never said you did

Ok, but you did have to remind me that they do in case I somehow forgot or something?

When my father trained horses, one of the horses he moved way up was a speed horse called G. J. From Ioway. He credited all of his improvement to simply changing his bit.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Calzone Lord

When my father trained horses, one of the horses he moved way up was a speed horse called G. J. From Ioway. He credited all of his improvement to simply changing his bit.

I have no doubt. I've never trained race horses, but I have trained hunters, and yes, changing bits can do amazing things.

PS: Do you know when Strong Commitment became a $5K claimer at Mountaineer?

[Calzone Lord]

3/24/2012

[CommodoreDowns]

Originally Posted by Calzone Lord

Ok, but you did have to remind me that they do in case I somehow forgot or something?

When my father trained horses, one of the horses he moved way up was a speed horse called G. J. From Ioway. He credited all of his improvement to simply changing his bit.

Your father would gave to be one of either JD Shatz or Doug Salvatore then... Remember that horse well..

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Calzone Lord

I'm talking in terms of performance on the racetrack.

If a drug benefits members of your competition more than it benefits you ... it brings you closer together and you lose a performance edge.

how does lasix benefit some more than others? and if you have no way of knowing if a horse would bleed or not, how would you know if lasix was beneficial or not?


i just wonder if this latest hot topic will be like poly a few years back in california? look where the synthetic mandate ended up. i can't help but think that if you start having hemorraging horses on the track they won't back-pedal in a hurry. and there have been instances where a horse bled so severely they went down in a race.

[Calzone Lord]

Originally Posted by Danzig

how does lasix benefit some more than others?

I can show you a lot of old past performances of horses who would stop on a dime and fade without lasix and perform a whole lot better with it.

I can show you a lot of old past performances of horses who never used lasix and fired big races everytime. Some of them from as recently as the 1990's.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Calzone Lord

I can show you a lot of old past performances of horses who would stop on a dime and fade without lasix and perform a whole lot better with it.

I can show you a lot of old past performances of horses who never used lasix and fired big races everytime. Some of them from as recently as the 1990's.

on the former, were they bleeders? and how old are those pps? it used to be that lasix was a masker, but apparently that's no longer the case.

on the latter-you don't have to use the stuff. i just would hate to see those who need it not be able to have it.

[cmorioles]

Originally Posted by Danzig

on the latter-you don't have to use the stuff. i just would hate to see those who need it not be able to have it.

You act like these horses are pets. It would be comical if it weren't so naive. There are PLENTY of horsemen that don't give a crap about the horses. Why are they so interested in keeping Lasix legal? It surely isn't about the horses.

Before anybody lectures me on how everybody loves horses, I'll offer up Anew, a horse that ran in the last race at Penn National tonight. He is an 11 year old gelding that came back to the races off a 4 and a half layoff. Yes, 4 and a half years. Steve Asmussen was the trainer. He brought the former stakes winner back for 25k claimers, lost, and dropped him to 15k. He lost interest in a hurry. Luckily for him, he washed his hands of the horse when David "the butcher" Jacobson claims him.

Jacobson enters him back for 7.5k and wins a purse, hooray, then runs him for 15k and loses badly. He decides to ship him to Prx where he dumps him in a 7.5k conditioned race, the horse dumps the rider at the start, and runs around the track only to return to a new barn. Yes, some idiot named Richard Vega was dumb enough to claim him.

The horse race tonight for the fourth time under Vega's "care". After three miserable efforts at Prx for 7.5k, the horse was shipped to Pen to run for 4k where again he was not competitive.

So, what is the point? I'm tired of hearing this "the horse comes first" bullsh!t, because that is what it is...bullsh!t. Sure, the guy at Pen is some loser trainer that is probably trying to scrape by and recoup some money. That doesn't excuse him from the way this horse is being handled. But forget him for a minute. The other horses are big names in the game. Jacobson is a leading trainer on the biggest circuit in the game, the NYRA circuit. Asmussen is one of the biggest trainers in the game, period.

So, I ask again, spare me the "it is in the best interest of the horse" crap. We all know that line is only used when it is convenient to use it. We also know for every Anew out there, I could scan the PPs every week and find several horses just like him. Three trainers, two nationally prominent, have had the chance to do the right thing. None of them have.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

You act like these horses are pets. It would be comical if it weren't so naive. There are PLENTY of horsemen that don't give a crap about the horses. Why are they so interested in keeping Lasix legal? It surely isn't about the horses.

Talk about naive. And offensive. Many trainers differ from you and want their horses to have good veterinary care. Speak for yourself. I'm sure most trainers don't want you speaking for them, especially with your "horses are disposable livestock" attitude.

So, I ask again, spare me the "it is in the best interest of the horse" crap.

And spare us your sanctimonious hard ass act crap. You're the poster child for everything that is bad in this sport: uncaring and deliberately ignorant.

[cmorioles]

Originally Posted by Riot

Talk about naive. And offensive. Many trainers differ from you and want their horses to have good veterinary care. Speak for yourself. I'm sure most trainers don't want you speaking for them, especially with your "horses are disposable livestock" attitude.



And spare us your sanctimonious hard ass act crap. You're the poster child for everything that is bad in this sport: uncaring and deliberately ignorant.

Differ from me? I'm not a trainer, and I don't have that attitude. I just observe and report. Here is what I see. David Jacobson does what is in the best interest of David Jacobson, not the horses. Steve Asmussen does what is in the best interest of Steve Asmussen, not the horses. There are many others out there just like them. I find that offensive, not my telling of what I see.

Nowhere did I say this was all horsemen. It certainly isn't. But it isn't a rare breed either.

[Calzone Lord]

Originally Posted by Riot

You're the poster child for everything that is bad in this sport: uncaring and deliberately ignorant.

Because he doesn't agree with you?

[cmorioles]

Originally Posted by Riot

And spare us your sanctimonious hard ass act crap. You're the poster child for everything that is bad in this sport: uncaring and deliberately ignorant.

How am I uncaring? I very much care about horses like Anew. Ignorant? I know more about the actual sport of horse racing than you will ever hope to know. There is a lot more to racing than sticking them with needles. I guess I struck a nerve...oh well, too bad. Everything I said is true about the horse and the people involved, like it or not. Actions speak a lot louder than words.

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

You act like these horses are pets. It would be comical if it weren't so naive. There are PLENTY of horsemen that don't give a crap about the horses. Why are they so interested in keeping Lasix legal? It surely isn't about the horses.

Before anybody lectures me on how everybody loves horses, I'll offer up Anew, a horse that ran in the last race at Penn National tonight.

How about John Fort of Peachtree Stable entering his multiple graded stakes winner Mythical Power (over $800k in earnings) in a $12.5k claiming event at Hollywood Park today?

His previous start was in a Grade 2 at Churchill Downs on Derby Day last year.

The public loves a good reverse-Cinderella story.