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  #1  
Old 05-12-2012, 07:20 PM
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Calzone Lord Calzone Lord is offline
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Originally Posted by Danzig View Post
one other question...what benefits do you anticipate if lasix is banned?
In terms of who benefits...probably the horses who don't need it.
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Old 05-12-2012, 07:24 PM
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In terms of who benefits...probably the horses who don't need it.
Lasix is an extremely safe drug with a wide margin of safety. How are the 7% of horses that suffer no EIPH harmed by receiving lasix?
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Old 05-12-2012, 07:32 PM
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Lasix is an extremely safe drug with a wide margin of safety. How are the 7% of horses that suffer no EIPH harmed by receiving lasix?
I'm talking in terms of performance on the racetrack.

If a drug benefits members of your competition more than it benefits you ... it brings you closer together and you lose a performance edge.
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Old 05-12-2012, 07:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Calzone Lord View Post
I'm talking in terms of performance on the racetrack.

If a (fill in the blank) benefits members of your competition more than it benefits you ... it brings you closer together and you lose a performance edge.
Certain bits, certain shoes, leg wraps, blinkers and hoods, FLAIR strips all benefit some horses more than others.

Do you think lasix is a therapeutic drug, or not?
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Old 05-12-2012, 08:05 PM
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Certain bits, certain shoes, leg wraps, blinkers and hoods, FLAIR strips all benefit some horses more than others.
I never said some equipment like bits, blinkers, and types of shoes don't benefit some horses more than others in situations.

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Do you think lasix is a therapeutic drug, or not?
You're asking the wrong person.
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Old 05-12-2012, 08:12 PM
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I never said some equipment like bits, blinkers, and types of shoes don't benefit some horses more than others in situations.
Good, because I never said you did
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Old 05-12-2012, 08:23 PM
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Good, because I never said you did
Ok, but you did have to remind me that they do in case I somehow forgot or something?

When my father trained horses, one of the horses he moved way up was a speed horse called G. J. From Ioway. He credited all of his improvement to simply changing his bit.
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Old 05-12-2012, 07:58 PM
Danzig Danzig is offline
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Originally Posted by Calzone Lord View Post
I'm talking in terms of performance on the racetrack.

If a drug benefits members of your competition more than it benefits you ... it brings you closer together and you lose a performance edge.
how does lasix benefit some more than others? and if you have no way of knowing if a horse would bleed or not, how would you know if lasix was beneficial or not?


i just wonder if this latest hot topic will be like poly a few years back in california? look where the synthetic mandate ended up. i can't help but think that if you start having hemorraging horses on the track they won't back-pedal in a hurry. and there have been instances where a horse bled so severely they went down in a race.
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Old 05-12-2012, 08:08 PM
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how does lasix benefit some more than others?
I can show you a lot of old past performances of horses who would stop on a dime and fade without lasix and perform a whole lot better with it.

I can show you a lot of old past performances of horses who never used lasix and fired big races everytime. Some of them from as recently as the 1990's.
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Old 05-12-2012, 08:09 PM
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I can show you a lot of old past performances of horses who would stop on a dime and fade without lasix and perform a whole lot better with it.

I can show you a lot of old past performances of horses who never used lasix and fired big races everytime. Some of them from as recently as the 1990's.
on the former, were they bleeders? and how old are those pps? it used to be that lasix was a masker, but apparently that's no longer the case.

on the latter-you don't have to use the stuff. i just would hate to see those who need it not be able to have it.
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Old 05-12-2012, 11:33 PM
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on the latter-you don't have to use the stuff. i just would hate to see those who need it not be able to have it.
You act like these horses are pets. It would be comical if it weren't so naive. There are PLENTY of horsemen that don't give a crap about the horses. Why are they so interested in keeping Lasix legal? It surely isn't about the horses.

Before anybody lectures me on how everybody loves horses, I'll offer up Anew, a horse that ran in the last race at Penn National tonight. He is an 11 year old gelding that came back to the races off a 4 and a half layoff. Yes, 4 and a half years. Steve Asmussen was the trainer. He brought the former stakes winner back for 25k claimers, lost, and dropped him to 15k. He lost interest in a hurry. Luckily for him, he washed his hands of the horse when David "the butcher" Jacobson claims him.

Jacobson enters him back for 7.5k and wins a purse, hooray, then runs him for 15k and loses badly. He decides to ship him to Prx where he dumps him in a 7.5k conditioned race, the horse dumps the rider at the start, and runs around the track only to return to a new barn. Yes, some idiot named Richard Vega was dumb enough to claim him.

The horse race tonight for the fourth time under Vega's "care". After three miserable efforts at Prx for 7.5k, the horse was shipped to Pen to run for 4k where again he was not competitive.

So, what is the point? I'm tired of hearing this "the horse comes first" bullsh!t, because that is what it is...bullsh!t. Sure, the guy at Pen is some loser trainer that is probably trying to scrape by and recoup some money. That doesn't excuse him from the way this horse is being handled. But forget him for a minute. The other horses are big names in the game. Jacobson is a leading trainer on the biggest circuit in the game, the NYRA circuit. Asmussen is one of the biggest trainers in the game, period.

So, I ask again, spare me the "it is in the best interest of the horse" crap. We all know that line is only used when it is convenient to use it. We also know for every Anew out there, I could scan the PPs every week and find several horses just like him. Three trainers, two nationally prominent, have had the chance to do the right thing. None of them have.
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