UC Davis police attack peaceful demonstraters

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by Danzig

you mean, kinda like not every cop is a bad one? yeah, we can't be painting everyone with the same brush, that would be bad.
unless you're painting the right group i guess.

F the police

except the ones on law and order of course.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Antitrust32

F the police

except the ones on law and order of course.

my father and some of the best people i've ever known were policemen in washington d.c.. it's a thankless job, underpaid, overworked, constantly being second-guessed by people who sit at home on their overstuffed couch, and judge people for their behavior-that they'll never encounter, or have to make split second decision about.
they have their bosses in one ear, the media in the other, the citizens on their asses. damned when they do, damned when they don't.
when they're in a situation, well, they shouldn't be there. but when someone else is in a situation, who are they screaming for? the cops...but they're never around when you need them, right?

my father was there for the vietnam protests, the farmers protests, the politicians drunk in limos with women who weren't their wives, drunks, crooks, the dregs of society trying to kill them...he'd been stabbed, shot at, assaulted, etc, etc


we all know the saying, walk a mile in their shoes..yeah, but who actually does that?
i watched my mother go thru 20 years of worry about my dad, working doubles, round the clock, dealing with all that. yeah, they all suck.
fact is, they don't. i know it for a fact.
a friend of ours was a k-9 cop. he made the mistake one night of running after a guy down the alley, and leaving the dog in the car. the dog tore that car apart trying to get to him, because he got his ass beat-lost his four front teeth to a baseball bat. was off work for weeks after that.
yeah, i'm sure paul had that coming.

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by Danzig

my father and some of the best people i've ever known were policemen in washington d.c.. it's a thankless job, underpaid, overworked, constantly being second-guessed by people who sit at home on their overstuffed couch, and judge people for their behavior-that they'll never encounter, or have to make split second decision about.
they have their bosses in one ear, the media in the other, the citizens on their asses. damned when they do, damned when they don't.
when they're in a situation, well, they shouldn't be there. but when someone else is in a situation, who are they screaming for? the cops...but they're never around when you need them, right?

my father was there for the vietnam protests, the farmers protests, the politicians drunk in limos with women who weren't their wives, drunks, crooks, the dregs of society trying to kill them...he'd been stabbed, shot at, assaulted, etc, etc


we all know the saying, walk a mile in their shoes..yeah, but who actually does that?
i watched my mother go thru 20 years of worry about my dad, working doubles, round the clock, dealing with all that. yeah, they all suck.
fact is, they don't. i know it for a fact.
a friend of ours was a k-9 cop. he made the mistake one night of running after a guy down the alley, and leaving the dog in the car. the dog tore that car apart trying to get to him, because he got his ass beat-lost his four front teeth to a baseball bat. was off work for weeks after that.
yeah, i'm sure paul had that coming.

my hat is off to the honest cops in the land who have to deal with rapists, murderers, voilent drug dealers, etc. In my opinion, those cops are the real law enforcers.

My problem is with the ones who do not have integrity. And also the ones who hide behind a bush on the side of the road to trap speeders. I have a huge problem with cops who try to just get money out of and harass hard working citizens. I severly dislike the cops who let the power get to their heads. and I hate hate hate the patriot act, and how it takes away checks and balances from police (warrantless searches based on whatever "suspicion" they invent), because I do NOT trust them.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Antitrust32

my hat is off to the honest cops in the land who have to deal with rapists, murderers, voilent drug dealers, etc. In my opinion, those cops are the real law enforcers.

My problem is with the ones who do not have integrity. And also the ones who hide behind a bush on the side of the road to trap speeders. I have a huge problem with cops who try to just get money out of and harass hard working citizens. I severly dislike the cops who let the power get to their heads. and I hate hate hate the patriot act, and how it takes away checks and balances from police (warrantless searches based on whatever "suspicion" they invent), because I do NOT trust them.

sure, just like every cross section of life, you're going to have bad cops. just like you have bad teachers, lawyers, judges, etc. funny tho, i typically only see cop bashing on here, and incendiary thread titles, and a general sense that they're 'all bad' from some posters on here.

and yeah, we were in a bank today with a patriot act sign, which i scoffed at. it's a joke. but keep in mind cops didn't come up with that act, bush and his buddies did-- and the fbi-and my dad never cared for the fbi. he told me what fbi stood for, and it's not fed bureau of investigation!

[somerfrost]

Originally Posted by Danzig

my father and some of the best people i've ever known were policemen in washington d.c.. it's a thankless job, underpaid, overworked, constantly being second-guessed by people who sit at home on their overstuffed couch, and judge people for their behavior-that they'll never encounter, or have to make split second decision about.
they have their bosses in one ear, the media in the other, the citizens on their asses. damned when they do, damned when they don't.
when they're in a situation, well, they shouldn't be there. but when someone else is in a situation, who are they screaming for? the cops...but they're never around when you need them, right?

my father was there for the vietnam protests, the farmers protests, the politicians drunk in limos with women who weren't their wives, drunks, crooks, the dregs of society trying to kill them...he'd been stabbed, shot at, assaulted, etc, etc


we all know the saying, walk a mile in their shoes..yeah, but who actually does that?
i watched my mother go thru 20 years of worry about my dad, working doubles, round the clock, dealing with all that. yeah, they all suck.
fact is, they don't. i know it for a fact.
a friend of ours was a k-9 cop. he made the mistake one night of running after a guy down the alley, and leaving the dog in the car. the dog tore that car apart trying to get to him, because he got his ass beat-lost his four front teeth to a baseball bat. was off work for weeks after that.
yeah, i'm sure paul had that coming.

I agree with everything you said....working as long as I did in the prison system and being directly involved with crowd control as a Military MP, I quite often found myself in scary situations where I feared for my own safety, all that is true BUT it doesn't apply in situations like the one that sparked this thread...calling the victims disgusting dirty hippies or implying they had it coming doesn't work when the visual evidence is front and center. Criminal behavior is criminal behavior whether committed by demonstrators or those in authority.

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by somerfrost

I agree with everything you said....working as long as I did in the prison system and being directly involved with crowd control as a Military MP, I quite often found myself in scary situations where I feared for my own safety, all that is true BUT it doesn't apply in situations like the one that sparked this thread...calling the victims disgusting dirty hippies or implying they had it coming doesn't work when the visual evidence is front and center. Criminal behavior is criminal behavior whether committed by demonstrators or those in authority.

Zig is right though in that the police are just carrying out their orders from higher up. It's the people ordering the cops who should be arrested. Starting with the federal government.

[somerfrost]

Originally Posted by Antitrust32

Zig is right though in that the police are just carrying out their orders from higher up. It's the people ordering the cops who should be arrested. Starting with the federal government.

Again I agree...but as I said before, there is a limit to how far "following orders" works for me.

[Danzig]

i think the problems involved aren't just from one part of the whole equation.

you have protesters ( and yeah, the hippy description is FAR from accurate) who admittedly are pushing the limits; even to the point of trespassing, etc. they absolutely will push as far as they can. perhaps even too far
they are told to move on, they don't. they're told to break camp, they don't.
you have the police, in some cases several different forces working together such as in oakland or on the campus a few days ago which causes a whole new set off issues (not everyone has the same training, guidelines, etc), with administrators saying the kids have to go, and go now.
then you have the chiefs of police, mayors, city councils, etc.
the police are given a job to do, the protestors have their own agenda, and of course city govt has theirs, property owners have theirs. a mix right for an explosion, or several.
and with this society as litigious as it is, i'd have to think the owners of the properties being squatted on are having a collective heart attack...how would you like all that liability hanging over your head?

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Danzig

you have protesters ( and yeah, the hippy description is FAR from accurate) who admittedly are pushing the limits; even to the point of trespassing, etc. they absolutely will push as far as they can. perhaps even too far
they are told to move on, they don't. they're told to break camp, they don't.

So in this case, the cops went in, destroyed and removed their tents. The Chancellor said demonstrations on the quad are perfectly fine, it was the tents that had to go.

Then the cops told the chief they were "scared" and trapped by the kids still sitting there peacefully demonstrating.

So the one cop just stepped over those scary, threatening kids (exposing his crotch to them), turned around, showed off his pepper spray, then walked up and down spraying those kids.

And they didn't even arrest anyone. The cops then left. There is no way to paint these two cops as anything other than disgusting.

Berkeley was where "campus free speech" started in the 1960s. It used to be not allowed on any college campus to even talk about politics, if you believe that. Students are citizens, and they have rights, and yes, they have the right, as written in the California public university code, to peacefully demonstrate on college public property - their quad.

Do the cops have a right to tell them to move? Not really. Not any more than cops have a right to tell you that you cannot be on a public street. There are tens of Occupy locations, where they've been for 2 months, no problems at all between the cops and the protesters. It depends upon how far screwed up management is in those towns - or not.

The kids that broke down the fence and invaded private property? Of course they should all be arrested for damage to property, trespass, etc.

[Alabama Stakes]

Originally Posted by Antitrust32

Zig is right though in that the police are just carrying out their orders from higher up. It's the people ordering the cops who should be arrested. Starting with the federal government.

yeah right.....are you freakin kiddin me.....like the Nazis were just following orders too. You have to be a real piece of shet to do that to a bunch of kids just sitting there. What kind of man does that to a woman ? Cops should be fired as well as the Chancellor

[GPK]

I didn't realize that this wasn't an "Occupy UC Davis" thing. The kids were protesting a doubling of their tuition.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by GPK

I didn't realize that this wasn't an "Occupy UC Davis" thing. The kids were protesting a doubling of their tuition.

No, they "are" Occupy UC Davis. All the Occupy's are protesting financial abuses. Davis raised tuition 9%, in private, with zero public feedback or input.

http://www.occupytogether.org/actions/

Occupy UC Davis is an ongoing series of Occupy Movement demonstrations at UC Davis. It is distinguished from the off-campus but allied Occupy Davis. Occupy UC Davis gained international attention on November 18, when University police were filmed pepper-spraying a group of peaceful demonstrators as they were seated on a sidewalk.[1] Police officers claimed that demonstrators had surrounded them and that they used the pepper-spray in self-defense, however captured video of the event does not show any threat to the officers. In the wake of this response, at least one officer has been suspended and placed on administrative leave and a call to remove Chancellor Linda P.B. Katehi has been initiated.

Background

Occupy UC Davis draws upon non-violent civil disobedience of the kind American Civil Rights Movement and the Arab Spring. It is a a part of the Occupy Movement and closely tied to Occupy Cal.

Occupy Wall Street (OWS) is an ongoing series of demonstrations beginning September 17, 2011, in New York City's Zuccotti Park in the Wall Street financial district. The protests have focused on social and economic inequality, high unemployment, greed, as well as corruption, and the undue influence of corporations—particularly that of the financial services sector—on government. The protesters' slogan We are the 99% refers to the growing difference in wealth in the U.S. between the wealthiest 1% and the rest of the population. The protest since grew into a world-wide movement known as the Occupy Movement.

Occupy Cal is an on-going series of protests at UC Berkeley. A major theme of the Occupy demonstrations at California public universities is the role of education in creating jobs and improving the quality of life of society as a whole, and the contrasting failure of the UC Regents and the State of California to honor commitments made in the California Master Plan for Higher Education. Recent 81% tuition increases for students, mandatory furloughs (including for professors), firings of lower-ranking workers (especially those working directly with students), and well-publicized raises for the highest paid administrators link here have further fueled discontent both within the University of California system (of which UC Davis is a part) and within the California State University system, which has also seen large tuition raises and consequent protests.

[somerfrost]

Originally Posted by Riot

No, they "are" Occupy UC Davis. All the Occupy's are protesting financial abuses. Davis raised tuition 9%, in private, with zero public feedback or input.

http://www.occupytogether.org/actions/

Nightly news reported tonight that two officers identified in the video along with chief of police have been placed on administrative leave, faculty at school are united in demanding resignation of school president/chancelor(sp).

[Riot]

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/1...wn?via=siderec

Here is a page of what happened today at UC Davis, including multiple videos:

Katehi speaking to Occupy UC Davis General Assembly, apologizing

General Assembly meeting afterwards where faculty and students called for Katehi's resignation, and the disbanding of a campus police department.

It's clear that the students are not backing down from their plans to initiate a general strike (tentatively set for November 28) and to occupy the quad with tents. It's also clear they are not accepting belated statements from administration officials at this stage as sufficient, regardless of the message.

Noteworthy is that the police presence at the rally was virtually non-existent for a massive crowd in the many thousands. This fact stands in stark – and ironic – contrast to the riot police force that sparked all of this when it tried to target a group of about 50 students with chemical agents and raised gas canisters.