10/1 (BEL): JCGC, Beldame, JHTC, Vosburgh, FlwrBwl (G1's), Kelso (G2)

[MaTH716]

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie

At first I thought WTF too.

Then I reconsidered. As much as I cannot stand Nak, I think he rode the race that gave him his only chance of winning. No way he could possibly have won with Mo saying loose like that. Not that he was going to win anyways, but at least that ride gave him a small hope that Mo might fold when challenged.

It didn't matter because I don't think JB was winning either (especially with no one challing Uncle Mo early), but the problem I have with the move was that when he almost made the lead they still had a quarter of a mile to go. That was in a 23.2 quarter where Jackson Bend probably ran 22.3 making up about 5 lengths. What could of he really had for the stretch at that point? I just think that they would have better off served waiting until they got into the lane to try to get Mo. Maybe he would have gotten lazy and not seen him coming or JV could have ended up on the rail. The result probably would have been the same, but I just thinking that going after him late would have been better than going after him with still a quarter left to run.

[Indian Charlie]

Originally Posted by MaTH716

It didn't matter because I don't think JB was winning either (especially with no one challing Uncle Mo early), but the problem I have with the move was that when he almost made the lead they still had a quarter of a mile to go. That was in a 23.2 quarter where Jackson Bend probably ran 22.3 making up about 5 lengths. What could of he really had for the stretch at that point? I just think that they would have better off served waiting until they got into the lane to try to get Mo. Maybe he would have gotten lazy and not seen him coming or JV could have ended up on the rail. The result probably would have been the same, but I just thinking that going after him late would have been better than going after him with still a quarter left to run.

As a rather lunatic fan of anything sired by Indian Charlie, I was glad JB made that move so that Uncle Mo would get something out of the race.

I agree that premature move or late move, it wouldn't have mattered in the end, but I don't think it was even slightly possible for JB to have won the race considering all of the race dynamics, had he waited later to move.

Looking at the stakes results it's no wonder why people play slots instead. Of course you're dealing with a sport full of yokels who've lost their competitive spirit and plan their campaigns like an overprotective mother. No wonder why these top horses are so garbage.

Ducking Uncle Mo? There really isn't much hope for the future if that's happening.

[gamblin4ever]

After the race they started talking about Uncle Mo in the classic. The connections should look at the Dirt Mile instead. I don't think he would be as effective at 1 1/4, especially when looking at the possible starters of the 2 races. He would be overbet, but not even be top 3 at the finish in the Classic compared to winning the Dirt Mile. IMO

[Indian Charlie]

Originally Posted by gamblin4ever

After the race they started talking about Uncle Mo in the classic. The connections should look at the Dirt Mile instead. I don't think he would be as effective at 1 1/4, especially when looking at the possible starters of the 2 races. He would be overbet, but not even be top 3 at the finish in the Classic compared to winning the Dirt Mile. IMO

I disagree. I think he is far more effective if he is relaxed in the early stages of the race, something far less likely to happen in the mile than in the classic.

And this horse will have no issues with distance. I don't really get how people can watch him race and think otherwise.

[gamblin4ever]

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie

I disagree. I think he is far more effective if he is relaxed in the early stages of the race, something far less likely to happen in the mile than in the classic.

And this horse will have no issues with distance. I don't really get how people can watch him race and think otherwise.

I agree with him relaxing,and him getting the distance. I just don't think he is as effective at 1 1/4. He likes to run up front/close to the pace, from what I've seen in his races, and think of the probables who like to run the same way. That's what I was meaning with my post. He won't have his normal kick when the closers come a running compared to the Dirt Mile.

[MaTH716]

Originally Posted by gamblin4ever

I agree with him relaxing,and him getting the distance. I just don't think he is as effective at 1 1/4. He likes to run up front/close to the pace, from what I've seen in his races, and think of the probables who like to run the same way. That's what I was meaning with my post. He won't have his normal kick when the closers come a running compared to the Dirt Mile.

Yeah, but he seems like he can rate very well. I would think that the tactics would be different for him depending on which race he went into. If he does go in the mile, I would expect him to rate off what could be a hot pace (like the King's Bishop). If he went into the classic, I would expect him to be much closer to the front, with the chance of getting away by the time they entered the stretch.

I'm not sure what you mean by normal kick, isn't all relative on how the rest of the race plays out? I know he was coming off a layoff, but he got nailed at the wire going 7 furlongs. Was that his normal kick?

I just feel like that he has a better chance of giving that dominate/special performance that everyone is waiting for in the classic, where he might be able to take control of the race. As opposed to the mile where it might look like the King's Bishop again. Where he rates for the speed to fold and tries to get the jump on the closers.

[Indian Charlie]

Originally Posted by gamblin4ever

I agree with him relaxing,and him getting the distance. I just don't think he is as effective at 1 1/4. He likes to run up front/close to the pace, from what I've seen in his races, and think of the probables who like to run the same way. That's what I was meaning with my post. He won't have his normal kick when the closers come a running compared to the Dirt Mile.

I am thinking of the probables, and that is why I like him so much more in the BCC. He'll get a much softer trip than he would in the mile.

It's total nonsense to think he can't get 10f.

Originally Posted by Coach Pants

Looking at the stakes results it's no wonder why people play slots instead. Of course you're dealing with a sport full of yokels who've lost their competitive spirit and plan their campaigns like an overprotective mother. No wonder why these top horses are so garbage.

Ducking Uncle Mo? There really isn't much hope for the future if that's happening.

I agree. Yesterdays card at Belmont was a complete joke. 33 betting interests in the 5 stakes races and other than the Vosburgh, they were all just public workouts on paper. If the JCGC was an invitational, why would they invite horses like Ice Box, A.U. Miner, Birdrun to participate??

[NTamm1215]

Originally Posted by helicopter11

I agree. Yesterdays card at Belmont was a complete joke. 33 betting interests in the 5 stakes races and other than the Vosburgh, they were all just public workouts on paper. If the JCGC was an invitational, why would they invite horses like Ice Box, A.U. Miner, Birdrun to participate??

Because if they didn't then people would complain on message boards about it being a 3 horse field.

Originally Posted by NTamm1215

Because if they didn't then people would complain on message boards about it being a 3 horse field.

Or they could invite better horses.

[Indian Charlie]

Originally Posted by helicopter11

Or they could invite better horses.

From where? The past?

[NTamm1215]

Originally Posted by helicopter11

Or they could invite better horses.

You kind of tipped your hand with the comments about Creative Cause but this post pretty much sealed it.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by helicopter11

Or they could invite better horses.

i guess you think they only invited those who showed?

there is a two-fold problem with stakes right now...too many races, not enough good horses. people can afford to pick and choose, avoid other top horses, while still making good money and getting black type.