unions killing jobs...

[timmgirvan]

Originally Posted by Riot

Boeing Dreamliner delays: years of bad management and outsourcing

http://www.dailyfinance.com/2011/01/...-goes-too-far/



Yeah, American companies should complain about evil American unions, and outsource like hell until the GOP can take over completely and remove "inhibitors to job creation": like minimum wage restrictions, child labor laws, having to pay overtime, and workplace safety rules, so it's "reasonable" to return jobs to the United States.

Of course, they'll never be able to remove those "inhibitors to job creation" until they bust the unions up and get them the hell out of the way so they can overturn 100 years of worker rights. How can we do that? Oh, yeah! Blame the unions for the financial disasters caused by Wall Street and large corporate selfish irresponsibility!

"The United States of America - Race To The Bottom, Embracing Third World Status"

You can only yell "fire" so many times,Riot!....but I kinda like that last line...

[jms62]

Originally Posted by timmgirvan

You can only yell "fire" so many times,Riot!....but I kinda like that last line...

She is 100% correct on the last line. You have been outta the workplace FAR FAR too long. I still shake my head in disbelief knowing you are on SSI and seeing you 100% behind those that are all willing to take it away. I really hope they dont even as i write a fat check to cover my own disability insurance.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by jms62

She is 100% correct on the last line. You have been outta the workplace FAR FAR too long. I still shake my head in disbelief knowing you are on SSI and seeing you 100% behind those that are all willing to take it away. I really hope they dont even as i write a fat check to cover my own disability insurance.

The problem is that just being on the other side of an issue doesn't make your side right. The idea that all corporations are evil is as wrong as the idea that all unions are bad. But the huge multinational corps that everyone bitches about have to stay competitive in an ever increasingly competitive global market. Some of the other countries that people like Riot praise routinely break trade treaty language and fund private companies with gov't money which makes all those cushy benefits and vacationtime a lot easier for those foreign companies to dole out. Look at Airbus versus Boeing in a little more depth and you'll see what I am talking about. We still can't forget that the corporate tax rate in the US is the highest of the supposed 1st world countries despite all the hand wringing about certain companies supposedly paying no taxes.

Not every union is a bad one. Unions that cover workers in dangerous jobs are still relevant. But you have to have extremely rose tinted glasses to defend the routine practices of the nations teachers unions and some of the other completely politicalized unions. Acting as though you are knocking the teaching profession when you point out the lunacy of thier unions positions is like me taking offense as a horseman when people knock the TOC for raising the takeout. Silly.

The problem is that like every other situation nowdays there is a whole bunch of complex issues that most people just don't know about or understand...however the big labor unions really aren't that complicated. They believe in scorched earth policy and the furtherence of their own political clout. When those policies result in problems, just blame the rich guys, evil corporations and the GOP. It seems like Riot has adopted the same tactics but she adds in GOP governors and any GOP female politician as well.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

The problem is that just being on the other side of an issue doesn't make your side right. The idea that all corporations are evil is as wrong as the idea that all unions are bad. But the huge multinational corps that everyone bitches about have to stay competitive in an ever increasingly competitive global market. Some of the other countries that people like Riot praise routinely break trade treaty language and fund private companies with gov't money which makes all those cushy benefits and vacationtime a lot easier for those foreign companies to dole out. Look at Airbus versus Boeing in a little more depth and you'll see what I am talking about. We still can't forget that the corporate tax rate in the US is the highest of the supposed 1st world countries despite all the hand wringing about certain companies supposedly paying no taxes.

Not every union is a bad one. Unions that cover workers in dangerous jobs are still relevant. But you have to have extremely rose tinted glasses to defend the routine practices of the nations teachers unions and some of the other completely politicalized unions. Acting as though you are knocking the teaching profession when you point out the lunacy of thier unions positions is like me taking offense as a horseman when people knock the TOC for raising the takeout. Silly.

The problem is that like every other situation nowdays there is a whole bunch of complex issues that most people just don't know about or understand...however the big labor unions really aren't that complicated. They believe in scorched earth policy and the furtherence of their own political clout. When those policies result in problems, just blame the rich guys, evil corporations and the GOP. It seems like Riot has adopted the same tactics but she adds in GOP governors and any GOP female politician as well.

i don't know really that unions do much in a dangerous setting. with osha regs, state safety regs, the union doesn't provide much in that regard.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Danzig

i don't know really that unions do much in a dangerous setting. with osha regs, state safety regs, the union doesn't provide much in that regard.

Unions are one of the main reasons those groups are around and so many safety regulations were passed. Of course some regulations are getting to be overkill and unncessary but that is not the point here.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Unions are one of the main reasons those groups are around and so many safety regulations were passed. Of course some regulations are getting to be overkill and unncessary but that is not the point here.

that is true. which is why so many think that unions are so great now, because they served great purposes then.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Danzig

that is true. which is why so many think that unions are so great now, because they served great purposes then.

People have the right to unionize. That's the point. That right is being attacked by demonizing the unions in the name of deficits.

This is an anti-union fight, because removing the last vestiges of unions, removes a great force standing in front of massive deregulation and removal of established worker rights. And that is what the biggest corporate donors want. They don't care about unions - they just want to demonize those evil teachers, firefighters and policemen so the public will support them in taking unions out.

There is a method to this madness on the part of the GOP. They even handed out "how to" sheets and ALEC hands out model laws for the Republican governors to pass.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Danzig

i don't know really that unions do much in a dangerous setting. with osha regs, state safety regs, the union doesn't provide much in that regard.

The unions were greatly contributory or responsible for those regulations being formulated.

You're right, the unions have done alot for workers in this country over the years, the worker is well-protected, so the purpose of a union has decreased markedly in todays world.

Except that there is an overt renewal of attack on workplace regulations starting up now, under the guise of "job creation need". So the unions better stick around.

[Clip-Clop]

Originally Posted by Riot

The unions were greatly contributory or responsible for those regulations being formulated.

You're right, the unions have done alot for workers in this country over the years, the worker is well-protected, so the purpose of a union has decreased markedly in todays world.

Except that there is an overt renewal of attack on workplace regulations starting up now, under the guise of "job creation need". So the unions better stick around.

Where do you get this stuff?

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Clip-Clop

Where do you get this stuff?

It's something that those of us who pay attention to what happens in state houses and on capital hill are aware of.

Try it some time.

[jms62]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

The problem is that just being on the other side of an issue doesn't make your side right. The idea that all corporations are evil is as wrong as the idea that all unions are bad. But the huge multinational corps that everyone bitches about have to stay competitive in an ever increasingly competitive global market. Some of the other countries that people like Riot praise routinely break trade treaty language and fund private companies with gov't money which makes all those cushy benefits and vacationtime a lot easier for those foreign companies to dole out. Look at Airbus versus Boeing in a little more depth and you'll see what I am talking about. We still can't forget that the corporate tax rate in the US is the highest of the supposed 1st world countries despite all the hand wringing about certain companies supposedly paying no taxes.

Not every union is a bad one. Unions that cover workers in dangerous jobs are still relevant. But you have to have extremely rose tinted glasses to defend the routine practices of the nations teachers unions and some of the other completely politicalized unions. Acting as though you are knocking the teaching profession when you point out the lunacy of thier unions positions is like me taking offense as a horseman when people knock the TOC for raising the takeout. Silly.

The problem is that like every other situation nowdays there is a whole bunch of complex issues that most people just don't know about or understand...however the big labor unions really aren't that complicated. They believe in scorched earth policy and the furtherence of their own political clout. When those policies result in problems, just blame the rich guys, evil corporations and the GOP. It seems like Riot has adopted the same tactics but she adds in GOP governors and any GOP female politician as well.

As opposed to big business who believe in a scoched earth policy vis a vis the US Economy and the jobs that fuel that economy when they ship jobs overseas to meet their short term goals of their Execs so their stock options are in the money and they can cash out now without any thought to the destruction they are wreaking on future generations. Lets give em a pass because by golly they need to be competitive in this Global Economy.

[Clip-Clop]

Originally Posted by jms62

As opposed to big business who believe in a scoched earth policy vis a vis the US Economy and the jobs that fuel that economy when they ship jobs overseas to meet their short term goals of their Execs so their stock options are in the money and they can cash out now without any thought to the destruction they are wreaking on future generations. Lets give em a pass because by golly they need to be competitive in this Global Economy.

What should they do?
Unlike the Fed, they cannot bleed cash for all eternity.

[jms62]

Originally Posted by Clip-Clop

What should they do?
Unlike the Fed, they cannot bleed cash for all eternity.

Strong companies are also sending their work overseas in droves. And the hemoraging you are witnessing is hemoraging of money LEAVING the US Economy. Money that if spent on US employees will be pumped back into our economy 100%. Unfortunately you and I won't live long enough to see China and India overcome their cultural barriers to buy local goods and buy US Goods. But at least you will be happy that your favorite CEO makes a few hundred million by keeping his stock options above water FOR NOW.. You know the game musical chairs... Very few chairs remain.

The solution is there is none becuase those that can make the laws are bought by those profiting from the scheme. Check-Mate.

Things are good for me now and good for you probably but you would have to be a complete moron to not see that given what is happening we WILL be affected and certainly our children will be.

You are being fuked by Business, Republicans and Demotards but like most need only one group to blame so it is all the Demotards fault.

[Clip-Clop]

Originally Posted by jms62

Strong companies are also sending their work overseas in droves. And the hemoraging you are witnessing is hemoraging of money LEAVING the US Economy. Money that if spent on US employees will be pumped back into our economy 100%. Unfortunately you and I won't live long enough to see China and India overcome their cultural barriers to buy local goods and buy US Goods. But at least you will be happy that your favorite CEO makes a few hundred million by keeping his stock options above water FOR NOW.. You know the game musical chairs... Very few chairs remain.

The solution is there is none becuase those that can make the laws are bought by those profiting from the scheme. Check-Mate.

Things are good for me now and good for you probably but you would have to be a complete moron to not see that given what is happening we WILL be affected and certainly our children will be.

You are being fuked by Business, Republicans and Demotards but like most need only one group to blame so it is all the Demotards fault.

Not at all, I see exactly what is happening and sadly know how it all ends. I am fed by business big and small (mostly small), without it my clients have no jobs or cash to build. I know who is sticking it to us (the collective us, pretty much everyone) I do not toe any party line but identify more with a moderate republican (extinct?) than a moderate democrat (definitely extinct). I think it was a great marketing plan that got Obama elected and we are now paying the price for it. I am not in the top 1% but I am in the top 15% and rely on those above me for my work.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by jms62

Strong companies are also sending their work overseas in droves. And the hemoraging you are witnessing is hemoraging of money LEAVING the US Economy. Money that if spent on US employees will be pumped back into our economy 100%. Unfortunately you and I won't live long enough to see China and India overcome their cultural barriers to buy local goods and buy US Goods. But at least you will be happy that your favorite CEO makes a few hundred million by keeping his stock options above water FOR NOW.. You know the game musical chairs... Very few chairs remain.

The solution is there is none becuase those that can make the laws are bought by those profiting from the scheme. Check-Mate.

Things are good for me now and good for you probably but you would have to be a complete moron to not see that given what is happening we WILL be affected and certainly our children will be.

You are being fuked by Business, Republicans and Demotards but like most need only one group to blame so it is all the Demotards fault.

A minute number of corporations are sending jobs overseas.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by jms62

As opposed to big business who believe in a scoched earth policy vis a vis the US Economy and the jobs that fuel that economy when they ship jobs overseas to meet their short term goals of their Execs so their stock options are in the money and they can cash out now without any thought to the destruction they are wreaking on future generations. Lets give em a pass because by golly they need to be competitive in this Global Economy.

What you wrote is a bunch of hypebole and bluster.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by jms62

As opposed to big business who believe in a scoched earth policy vis a vis the US Economy and the jobs that fuel that economy when they ship jobs overseas to meet their short term goals of their Execs so their stock options are in the money and they can cash out now without any thought to the destruction they are wreaking on future generations. Lets give em a pass because by golly they need to be competitive in this Global Economy.

Wall Street used to make money on supporting growing businesses, identifying promising new companies as a moneymaking opportunity. The individual with a retirement account could join in this.

Now, Wall Street could care less about if a company survives, they just want to be on the right position side of the growth or crash. Nobody cares what happens to the investors little funds and retirement.

"So sorry, 1/3 of your retirement accounts are gone. Too bad! That's risk for you!"

[Clip-Clop]

Originally Posted by Riot

Wall Street used to make money on supporting growing businesses, identifying promising new companies as a moneymaking opportunity. The individual with a retirement account could join in this.

Now, Wall Street could care less about if a company survives, they just want to be on the right position side of the growth or crash. Nobody cares what happens to the investors little funds and retirement.

"So sorry, 1/3 of your retirement accounts are gone. Too bad! That's risk for you!"

Better than all of it like SS. Oh wait that one will be fine...

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Clip-Clop

Better than all of it like SS. Oh wait that one will be fine...

How's that kool aid tasting to you?

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

When those policies result in problems, just blame the rich guys, evil corporations and the GOP. It seems like Riot has adopted the same tactics but she adds in GOP governors and any GOP female politician as well.

It's not "tactics", it's reality.

First, look at the facts of who has contributed most to destroying this country in the past decade with lying about wars, killing thousands of our young men and women, destroying the financial structure of this country, and reckless, unfunded spending and charging on the credit card.

Secondly, the GOP Governors, through Americans for Progress, Koch Brothers, ALEC, Republican Governors Association, Crossroads, etc most certainly do literally hand out bullet goals for governors. That is why all the sudden union busting stuff, the trying to privatize, the removal of home rule and appointment of "managers" by Governors, etc.

The current round of female GOP politicians of the ilk of Michelle Bachmann and Sarah Palin are crazy, not-intelligent cult members. They deserve to be called exactly what they are. Not ready for prime time, and most certainly not qualified to lead this country.

I've been part of the GOP my whole life, from the inside, and it's gone over the edge into craziness. The Republican leadership doesn't even pretend to represent the interests of the average citizen any more. They are a clear danger to this country.

You're welcome to them. Trying to disparage or discredit me because I want nothing more to do with that - well, have at it.