unions killing jobs...

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Danzig

i don't think teachers get demonized..but when people start saying that 45k isn't enough...yeah, that's not going to evoke a lot of sympathy right now.

Yeah, I say $45K isn't enough for teachers. I think teachers are so important, and so be revered in this society, that the job should start at $60-$75K and go up to $120K or so. Then teaching would attract the best and brightest, like medical schools.

Not suffer from having their best people who "burn out" after 15 years.

And yes, calling 80% of teachers in this country incompetent freeloaders is indeed demonizing them. I spent most of my life hearing how teachers are never paid enough, how they are unsung heroes in this country, how they are not paid in line for the important and essential job they do. Now the societal meme (pushed by the GOP) is that they suck and it's evil teachers and their unions' fault we have no money.

Screw the GOP and their attempt to steal the last pennies from this country.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Riot

Yeah, I say $45K isn't enough for teachers. I think teachers are so important, and so be revered in this society, that the job should start at $60-$75K and go up to $120K or so. Then teaching would attract the best and brightest, like medical schools.

Not suffer from having their best people who "burn out" after 15 years.

yeah, we can pay everyone what they think they deserve. in fantasyland.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Danzig

yeah, we can pay everyone what they think they deserve. in fantasyland.

Countries - societies - value some things, and abhor others. The United States has indeed become unique among first world countries in what we do not value in this society, compared to other first world countries.

[timmgirvan]

Originally Posted by Riot

Countries - societies - value some things, and abhor others. The United States has indeed become unique among first world countries in what we do not value in this society, compared to other first world countries.

So...in what current society does a teacher make more than 45k...not counting tenure?

[Riot]

Originally Posted by timmgirvan

So...in what current society does a teacher make more than 45k...not counting tenure?

Let's compare teacher salaries after 15 years experience, compared to GDP, okay? Who pays experienced teachers more than the United States, adjusted to GDP? (which means their salary is comparatively higher in their country compared to this country)

Korea
Germany
Portugal
Japan
Scotland
New Zealand
Switzerland
Mexico
Spain
England
Czech Republic
Turkey
Slovenia
Ireland
Belgium (FI)
Australia
Greece
Netherlands
Belgium (Fr)
Denmark
Chile
Finland
Austria
Italy
France
United States

Who pays more than the United States, in straight unadjusted teachers salary after 15 years experience?

Luxemburg
Korea
Switzerland
Germany
Ireland
Japan
Scotland
England
Netherlands
Australia
United States

http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/20...und-the-world/

[timmgirvan]

Originally Posted by Riot

Let's compare teacher salaries after 15 years experience, compared to GDP, okay? Who pays experienced teachers more than the United States, adjusted to GDP? (which means their salary is comparatively higher in their country compared to this country)

Korea
Germany
Portugal
Japan
Scotland
New Zealand
Switzerland
Mexico
Spain
England
Czech Republic
Turkey
Slovenia
Ireland
Belgium (FI)
Australia
Greece
Netherlands
Belgium (Fr)
Denmark
Chile
Finland
Austria
Italy
France
United States

Who pays more than the United States, in straight unadjusted teachers salary after 15 years experience?

Luxemburg
Korea
Switzerland
Germany
Ireland
Japan
Scotland
England
Netherlands
Australia
United States

http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/20...und-the-world/

Well....its obvious we're getting our moneys worth then....considering how well our kids stack up against other countries students! Who goofed I've got to know!

[Riot]

Originally Posted by timmgirvan

Well....its obvious we're getting our moneys worth then....considering how well our kids stack up against other countries students! Who goofed I've got to know!

That is about where we are comparing our students to those countries. Our kids stack up very poorly to the kids in those countries.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Riot

Let's compare teacher salaries after 15 years experience, compared to GDP, okay? Who pays experienced teachers more than the United States, adjusted to GDP? (which means their salary is comparatively higher in their country compared to this country)

Korea
Germany
Portugal
Japan
Scotland
New Zealand
Switzerland
Mexico
Spain
England
Czech Republic
Turkey
Slovenia
Ireland
Belgium (FI)
Australia
Greece
Netherlands
Belgium (Fr)
Denmark
Chile
Finland
Austria
Italy
France
United States

Who pays more than the United States, in straight unadjusted teachers salary after 15 years experience?

Luxemburg
Korea
Switzerland
Germany
Ireland
Japan
Scotland
England
Netherlands
Australia
United States

http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/20...und-the-world/

how many of those countries' schools go all year, not part year like us?

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Danzig

how many of those countries' schools go all year, not part year like us?

I don't know. I'm too depressed for the teachers in my family after that.

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by Riot

Yeah, I say $45K isn't enough for teachers. I think teachers are so important, and so be revered in this society, that the job should start at $60-$75K and go up to $120K or so. Then teaching would attract the best and brightest, like medical schools.

Not suffer from having their best people who "burn out" after 15 years.

And yes, calling 80% of teachers in this country incompetent freeloaders is indeed demonizing them. I spent most of my life hearing how teachers are never paid enough, how they are unsung heroes in this country, how they are not paid in line for the important and essential job they do. Now the societal meme (pushed by the GOP) is that they suck and it's evil teachers and their unions' fault we have no money.

Screw the GOP and their attempt to steal the last pennies from this country.

45k is entry level. higher than entry level at a lot of jobs

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Antitrust32

45k is entry level. higher than entry level at a lot of jobs

How does it relate to jobs requiring 4 years of college and state certification?

[timmgirvan]

Originally Posted by Riot

Yeah, I say $45K isn't enough for teachers. I think teachers are so important, and so be revered in this society, that the job should start at $60-$75K and go up to $120K or so. Then teaching would attract the best and brightest, like medical schools.

Not suffer from having their best people who "burn out" after 15 years.

And yes, calling 80% of teachers in this country incompetent freeloaders is indeed demonizing them. I spent most of my life hearing how teachers are never paid enough, how they are unsung heroes in this country, how they are not paid in line for the important and essential job they do. Now the societal meme (pushed by the GOP) is that they suck and it's evil teachers and their unions' fault we have no money.

Screw the GOP and their attempt to steal the last pennies from this country.

Teachers unions DO SUCK because they push their own socialist agenda and hold sway with the politicians that do their bidding.

Just so you know...a teacher has a lesson plan that she mustn't deviate from....she has to toe the line in what she brings to the students personally. It is no wonder that the best teachers leave for different careers, even giving up the lucrative pensions they've earned.