Dutrow Filly - Four Races In 12 Days

trackrat59 · #1 08-23-2011, 10:12 AM

4 races in 12 days? That's not excessive?

MaTH716 · #2 08-23-2011, 10:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by trackrat59

4 races in 12 days? That's not excessive?

Maybe, but she ran first and second in the two prior starts while stepping up in class. It wasn't like he dropped her in for 20k and she was eased. It still was a starter allowance (where she caught a turf course that was labeled good). Was it excessive? Probably, but like Hoss said it's easier to say that now. I want to believe that it's a bigger deal than it should be just because it's Dutrow.

Rudeboyelvis · #3 08-23-2011, 10:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaTH716

Maybe, but she ran first and second in the two prior starts while stepping up in class. It wasn't like he dropped her in for 20k and she was eased. It still was a starter allowance (where she caught a turf course that was labeled good). Was it excessive? Probably, but like Hoss said it's easier to say that now. I want to believe that it's a bigger deal than it should be just because it's Dutrow.

Ding! Winner!

I'm no fan of Dutrow but the horse seemed fine and competitive in the 2 starts under his care - the 3rd, well the horse was eased, but was fine and walked back to the barn with no noticeable issues and did not require an ambulance - there is no evidence at all to suggest the reason was a result of the quick turnaround - that is nothing but random speculation and typical Paulick sh.it-stirring with no evidence to back any of it up...

Matt - you're point is spot on - they never ran this horse once to drop and cut - short of the 75k tag that they knew no one would touch her for, and then two protected starts which suggests to me that the connections know they got a great deal and wanted to protect this one.

Sorry if I choose see the glass half full - but the OMG MEANY HORSEY GUY witch hunt bullsh.it is unfounded in my opinion.

parsixfarms · #4 08-23-2011, 12:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rudeboyelvis

Matt - you're point is spot on - they never ran this horse once to drop and cut - short of the 75k tag that they knew no one would touch her for, and then two protected starts which suggests to me that the connections know they got a great deal and wanted to protect this one.

As an FYI, under NY claiming rules, they couldn't drop the filly until the thirty-day "jail" period expires (meaning that they have to run her for at least 25% above the claiming price for the first thirty days after the claim).

Rudeboyelvis · #5 08-23-2011, 01:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by parsixfarms

As an FYI, under NY claiming rules, they couldn't drop the filly until the thirty-day "jail" period expires (meaning that they have to run her for at least 25% above the claiming price for the first thirty days after the claim).

Yup and after the first win for 75, they could have dropped to 50 if their plan was to use up the horse and cut - the fact that they chose two protected conditions just further illustrates the point that this horse has value and there wasn't some insidious plan to ruin it by running it back quickly...

Calzone Lord · #6 08-23-2011, 01:23 PM

Seattleallstar · #7 08-23-2011, 01:34 PM

ahh the good ol days! It was even better when 3yr olds would run in the wood,bluegrass, derby trial then the KY Derby

Scav · #8 08-23-2011, 01:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rudeboyelvis

Ding! Winner!

I'm no fan of Dutrow but the horse seemed fine and competitive in the 2 starts under his care - the 3rd, well the horse was eased, but was fine and walked back to the barn with no noticeable issues and did not require an ambulance - there is no evidence at all to suggest the reason was a result of the quick turnaround - that is nothing but random speculation and typical Paulick sh.it-stirring with no evidence to back any of it up...

Matt - you're point is spot on - they never ran this horse once to drop and cut - short of the 75k tag that they knew no one would touch her for, and then two protected starts which suggests to me that the connections know they got a great deal and wanted to protect this one.

Sorry if I choose see the glass half full - but the OMG MEANY HORSEY GUY witch hunt bullsh.it is unfounded in my opinion.

Look at Saratoga's Facebook page and the comedy I got myself involved with. Talking common sense to some of these people is just impossible

Seattleallstar · #9 08-23-2011, 01:07 PM

I can only wish horses ran 4 times in 12 days, isnt that how it was in the good ol days?

Now we have slow, brittle, babied thoroughbreds who can barely run over a Mile

Cannon Shell · #10 08-23-2011, 02:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seattleallstar

I can only wish horses ran 4 times in 12 days, isnt that how it was in the good ol days?

Now we have slow, brittle, babied thoroughbreds who can barely run over a Mile

Dont blame the horses they cant enter themselves. Blame the people like owners many to whom win percentage means everything (more starts=lower win percentage) and trainers that have 6 horses for each condition and convince everyone that they all need 6 weeks between starts. Blame racing secretaries who bend over backwards to help those who least need helping. Blame TVG/HRTV/95% racing press who slobber all over themselves praising the "Spacing races" crew. Monkey see, Monkey do.

Calzone Lord · #11 08-23-2011, 03:45 PM

This poor friggen horse made 341 starts in a span of just six years.

That's an AVG of 56.83 starts a year for six straight years!

We all know that it's speed that wins horse races and it's precocity that attracts buyers ... so the iron plodders getting fazed out plays a role on the toughness of the breed over time.

But, if a race horse could handle 341 starts in six years a hundred years ago -- what's 4 races in 12 days with a sound horse to a magician like Dutrow?

Seattleallstar · #12 08-23-2011, 04:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Dont blame the horses they cant enter themselves. Blame the people like owners many to whom win percentage means everything (more starts=lower win percentage) and trainers that have 6 horses for each condition and convince everyone that they all need 6 weeks between starts. Blame racing secretaries who bend over backwards to help those who least need helping. Blame TVG/HRTV/95% racing press who slobber all over themselves praising the "Spacing races" crew. Monkey see, Monkey do.

So you mean to tell me its only going to get worse then

PatCummings · #13 08-23-2011, 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Dont blame the horses they cant enter themselves. Blame the people like owners many to whom win percentage means everything (more starts=lower win percentage) and trainers that have 6 horses for each condition and convince everyone that they all need 6 weeks between starts. Blame racing secretaries who bend over backwards to help those who least need helping. Blame TVG/HRTV/95% racing press who slobber all over themselves praising the "Spacing races" crew. Monkey see, Monkey do.

From a race spacing standpoint, was Frankel really the first big one to do it with regularity? "Do it" as in terms of the way everyone does it now?

Danzig · #14 08-23-2011, 06:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Dont blame the horses they cant enter themselves. Blame the people like owners many to whom win percentage means everything (more starts=lower win percentage) and trainers that have 6 horses for each condition and convince everyone that they all need 6 weeks between starts. Blame racing secretaries who bend over backwards to help those who least need helping. Blame TVG/HRTV/95% racing press who slobber all over themselves praising the "Spacing races" crew. Monkey see, Monkey do.

ateamstupid · #15 08-23-2011, 03:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scav

Look at Saratoga's Facebook page and the comedy I got myself involved with. Talking common sense to some of these people is just impossible

I got your back homie.

Dahoss · #16 08-23-2011, 04:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scav

Look at Saratoga's Facebook page and the comedy I got myself involved with. Talking common sense to some of these people is just impossible

Just read that exchange.

Oh my god.

I had a nice laugh that the person you were arguing with's profile picture is her and her bottle of Aqua Net hairspray.

On one hand, as you said, you have to admire their thought. But most of them are so ignorant about what really goes on that it ruins it. Then again, these are the same people that talk to horses on their facebook pages as if the horses are logging in and reading them.

Scav · #17 08-23-2011, 05:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dahoss

Just read that exchange.

Oh my god.

I had a nice laugh that the person you were arguing with's profile picture is her and her bottle of Aqua Net hairspray.

On one hand, as you said, you have to admire their thought. But most of them are so ignorant about what really goes on that it ruins it. Then again, these are the same people that talk to horses on their facebook pages as if the horses are logging in and reading them.

I should have known better to even get involved, but I saw the Calzone Prince starting some **** on the NYRA page and I had to start.

Plus, I really believe what I'm saying, they have no business trying to tell people when to run a horse or not run a horse, especially one that was hitting the board. I would actually agree with them probably if the horse was entered in another turf race. What I found hilarious is when I talked about 'enhancing a horse's performance' it completely flew over their head.

Calzone Lord · #18 08-23-2011, 05:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scav

I should have known better to even get involved, but I saw the Calzone Prince starting some **** on the NYRA page and I had to start.

I didn't post anything on the NYRA page --- just got into cat fights about it on the pages of two seperate female friends on my friends list ... both of them were tremendously comical!

Linny · #19 08-23-2011, 05:27 PM

No less than Man O' War himself started his career on June 6th, then ran back on the 9th, then the 21st, then the 23rd, then the 5th of July. He started his career with 5 races inside 4 weeks.
He was then rested until early August. In August he ran on the 2nd, 13th, 23rd and 30th. After his loss in the Sanford, (Aug 13) he wasn't sent to the farm, seen by a battalion of vets or handwalked for 6 weeks. He was back in 10 days and never lost again.

How about Old Rosebud, who ended his career with 40 wins from 80 (!) starts. At two he ran in early FEB and early MAR. He was rested and shipped from Juarez to KY where he ran 6 times in May, including starts on the 1st, 17th (layoff?) 19th, 23rd, 26th and 31st. This clearly knocked him for a loop as he only raced 3 times in June. All this was in his 2yo year. Too bad he was ruined and could only go 2 for 3 at 3 including an 8 length win in the Derby. (He was up the track in the Withers, at the time a VERY important race and then was off for almost 3 years but he came back and raced 'til age 11.)

Calzone Lord · #20 08-23-2011, 05:35 PM

Here are a few are the claw scratching comments I recieved:

Quote:

Lori Minkus
Ohh For God's Sake. @ Doug so THIS is your measure of if a trainer is running a horse too frequently, if it gets vanned off the track or not???? Holy Eight Bells. So as long as the horse doesn't suffer a Catastophic injury or Death it's not running too much. Do you fight dogs as well? Realy, I mean what's the differece? They are bred for 1 reason, they are trained, when every last dime is wrung out of them, they are discarded. Tell me Ohhh Wise and compassionate one, just what in Christs name do think will be sound in wind and limb, in tendons, cartilage, bursas, stomach lining, good lord, brain, when this filly finaly crashes? What does this filly DO THEN? Huh? Who do you think will buy this filly when her trainer pounds her into the Ground??? WHERE DOES SHE GO THEN? Can she come live the rest of her life out with you? No? So now that she has given her all on the track is what waits for her a captive bolt to the brain?

Yes -- Lori -- this daughter of Tale of the Cat out of an A. P. Indy mare who made over 80K in her first five dirt races and has run multiple Beyer's in the 80's as a 3yo filly .... surely no one will want her. She is either going to come live with me in Erie or "get a captive bolt to the brain" ... the latter probably being the more humane option.