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[Riot]

Originally Posted by dellinger63

And if you re-read his post he is sick of that view and ready to kick some ass hence my post being he is a Mandela on your quiz.

Well, considering this administration finally, after 60 years, got the first nationwide healthcare reform passed, albeit basic, in spite of stiff opposition from those that spent years proposing the very same thing, and outright lies about content, I think "ass has already been kicked" on this one

As far as Medicare being a runaway train, I'd think you'd then be quite happy about the billions of waste that is eliminated within Medicare over 10 years due to the PPACA.

[dellinger63]

Originally Posted by Riot

As far as Medicare being a runaway train, I'd think you'd then be quite happy about the billions of waste that is eliminated within Medicare over 10 years due to the PPACA.

and I think you'll be amazed at how much waste (in the form of needless visits, tests, therapy) will be created with the PPACA should it be somehow found constitutional.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by dellinger63

and I think you'll be amazed at how much waste (in the form of needless visits, tests, therapy) will be created with the PPACA should it be somehow found constitutional.

Why in the world would you think needless visits would be generated? How? Why?

It's pretty well proven axiom that eliminating people from going to the ER for such things as colds, intermittant diabetic/heart care, etc - and instead going regularly to their family physician or regular doctor, because they now have health insurance - absolutely decreases "needless" visits, and vastly improves health care, while decreasing the cost for everyone.

[dellinger63]

Originally Posted by Riot

Why in the world would you think needless visits would be generated? How? Why?.

You realize not all Dr's/Clinics are 100% honest. 'Patients' armed with an insurance card can go in with a back problem, the clinic dr. can do a barrage of tests including MRI's daily therapy etc and the patient leaves with prescription, the clinic/dr make a fortune and we all get f'd. Similar to seniors on medicare selling their prescriptions for everything from viagra to vicodine. All it takes is one bad dr. for every 100 good ones.

I've been to the ER many times and not once have I seen someone come in for a cold or bad back for that matter. There already are county hospitals and clinics in place and in this country at least you get what you pay for.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by dellinger63

You realize not all Dr's/Clinics are 100% honest. 'Patients' armed with an insurance card can go in with a back problem, the clinic dr. can do a barrage of tests including MRI's daily therapy etc and the patient leaves with prescription, the clinic/dr make a fortune and we all get f'd.

That's exactly how it is now. So why in the world would you think it would increase? How will the PPACA increase the amount of fraud? People still have to pay a copay if they want to see a doctor.

Are you accusing currently uninsured people of being frauds in waiting?

You are saying that increasing the number of people with health insurance will increase the incidence of fraud? That's absurd.

I've been to the ER many times and not once have I seen someone come in for a cold or bad back for that matter.

Seriously? You are actually going to use that as an argument? Okay - How many times have you been to an ER, and how many times have you been informed personally by the charge nurse of the ailments of the current patient census?

I really don't care, because I spent 10 years as a paramedic in the NW suburban hosp. system, and in the NW portion of Chicago, and I have personally brought more non-emergent patients to the ER than you've ever had even imaginary ER trips - I'll guarantee that up front.

So sorry Dell - yes, people without insurance come in constantly to ER's for non-emergent problems when that is one's only option, because you don't have health insurance. Not exactly a big secret within the medical world. Don't take my word for it. In fact, it's commonly known, and clearly identified as one of the largest contributors to everyone's health care costs - yours, too - and decreased quality of health care for the constantly sick.

There already are county hospitals and clinics in place and in this country at least you get what you pay for.

Uh, yeah, that's exactly the problem - this is the United States of America, and our citizens are ill and dying because they can't afford health care. We do not have the best health care in the world. We have an outrageous infant mortality rate. These folks are getting exactly what they pay for. That's why the majority in this country wants that fixed.

[dellinger63]

Originally Posted by Riot

That's exactly how it is now. So why in the world would you think it would increase? How will the PPACA increase the amount of fraud? People still have to pay a copay if they want to see a doctor.

Are you accusing currently uninsured people of being frauds in waiting?

You are saying that increasing the number of people with health insurance will increase the incidence of fraud? That's absurd..

No fraud will continue at the same rate it is currently. As I stated in another post, 10% in the Medicare world. It's the 40 million new patients that will increase fraud, many who are 'subsidized' thus have shall we say 'less' interest in cost. Life isn't always fair as demonstrated by the fact 42% of households pay no income tax. Deal with it.

IMO The government needs to stay in the governing business and stay out of healthcare all together. We have the most expensive system because we are the most advanced. This is evidenced by a myriad of world leaders including the King of Saudi Arabia who could have chosen any caregiver on the planet yet chose the USA and its miserable health care system. Don’t try and fix what’s not broken.

[somerfrost]

Originally Posted by dellinger63

No fraud will continue at the same rate it is currently. As I stated in another post, 10% in the Medicare world. It's the 40 million new patients that will increase fraud, many who are 'subsidized' thus have shall we say 'less' interest in cost. Life isn't always fair as demonstrated by the fact 42% of households pay no income tax. Deal with it.

IMO The government needs to stay in the governing business and stay out of healthcare all together. We have the most expensive system because we are the most advanced. This is evidenced by a myriad of world leaders including the King of Saudi Arabia who could have chosen any caregiver on the planet yet chose the USA and its miserable health care system. Don’t try and fix what’s not broken.

Dell, that just shows that the rich can afford the best....do you really think the poor or middle class have the same access? This nation has become two countries, one where rich folks enjoy all the benefits their money can buy, the other where the rest of us struggle every day. Saying life isn't always fair is a cop out....it could be a damn lot fairer for everyone!

[Riot]

Originally Posted by dellinger63

Life isn't always fair as demonstrated by the fact 42% of households pay no income tax. Deal with it.

The voting majority in this country elected a President, House and Senate that would try and enact healthcare reform. It's now law. Deal with it.