If he wins - will they put him in the Hall of Fame?

[Dahoss]

It's that tough to admit, huh?

You want to keep changing the rules until you're somewhat redeemed, as now only winning graded stakes counts. We both know Borel can't compare to Solis in that aspect and I'm sure Chavez can't either.

But I'm interested in seeing a breakdown of Chavez's glory years and how his graded stakes wins compares with the other riders in his colony.

I'm just glad I learned the only races run in Southern California in the 90's were graded stakes, Cal Bred races and claiming races (apparently MSW's and allowance races didn't come along until the 21st century).

[The Indomitable DrugS]

If you bet those races - you'd know how brutal Solis was.

Everyone knocks Russell Baze for winning those type of races in No. Cal - but Russell was obviously a much better jockey than Solis.

[Dahoss]

Yeah that's it. I didn't bet then.

You didn't remember Antley rode in So Cal then, but you remember how bad Solis was.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by Dahoss

Yeah that's it. I didn't bet then.

I thought OTB's in New York didn't start showing Southern Cal racing until the late 90's?

Not only did the good people of Erie have the full card So. Cal circuit races on our local cable station as early as 1992 (before racing on the Internet) ... but the Erie OTB also started taking full card on So. Cal - and about 20-to-25 other track as early as 1992 or 1993.

Either way ... it's not like Solis has improved any.

[Indian Charlie]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

I thought OTB's in New York didn't start showing Southern Cal racing until the late 90's?

Not only did the good people of Erie have the full card So. Cal circuit races on our local cable station as early as 1992 (before racing on the Internet) ... but the Erie OTB also started taking full card on So. Cal - and about 20-to-25 other track as early as 1992 or 1993.

Either way ... it's not like Solis has improved any.

Your debating skills today rival those of Pippy.

Perhaps Hossy should award you the iron fist for debate skill?

[The Indomitable DrugS]

I will never rival Pippy.

The following column describes the career of Alex Solis in a lot of ways ...

http://www.drf.com/news/chavez-deserves-new-nickname-0

However,

* Solis is not aggressive

* Gamblers hated him instead of loved him

* Solis never won a Kentucky Derby with a "smooth, flawless, tactical performance"

* Solis never won an Eclipse award for being the nations best rider for a full year.

Sadly - Solis did have a longer and more steady career on a tougher year-round circuit. He had far fewer peaks and valleys than Chavez. He was always that 5th to 12th best guy in the Jock's room. You know - the rider that you can often count on to screw one up - but still always look like a well polished pro while he's butchering a ride.


Of course - IC loves Solis because he beat the hell out of Nakatani after Nakatani pushed another jockey off a horse during the gallop-out.

[Indian Charlie]

I always liked Solis, relative to other jockeys, that is.

It's really not possible for me to 'love' a jockey. I guess the closest would be Pincay.

Being the go to guy for Mel Stute is hardly the same thing as being the go to guy for Frankel, Lukas, Baffert, etc.

All that aside, your tenaciousness on this topic certainly does rival Pippy's incessant belief that the other person is wrong.

He's the only person to ever outlast you in a horse argument.

Today, you are Pip.

Tell me you really don't think Chavez was better than Solis.

Who would you rather have on your horse?

[Dahoss]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

I thought OTB's in New York didn't start showing Southern Cal racing until the late 90's?

Not only did the good people of Erie have the full card So. Cal circuit races on our local cable station as early as 1992 (before racing on the Internet) ... but the Erie OTB also started taking full card on So. Cal - and about 20-to-25 other track as early as 1992 or 1993.

Either way ... it's not like Solis has improved any.

We got full card for a ton of tracks by '94 or '95, maybe before.

Either way it doesn't make your point any less wrong. Just another attempt to move the goal posts.

[Dahoss]

Just to put an end to this on my end (I'm bored, but not this bored) I'm fine if none of them ever get in.

But if Borel should get in, so should Solis based on their career numbers. Chavez doesn't even belong in the discussion despite him beating DrugS on the front end at Gulfstream.

Is it too early for a drink?

[TouchOfGrey]

Originally Posted by Dahoss

Is it too early for a drink?

It's never too early for a drink.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by Dahoss

Chavez doesn't even belong in the discussion despite him beating DrugS on the front end at Gulfstream.

And beating about 10 to 12 other Hall of Fame riders in the prime of their career in 1999.

2003 : Jerry Bailey
2002 : Jerry Bailey
2001 : Jerry Bailey
2000 : Jerry Bailey
1999 : Jorge F. Chavez
1998 : Gary L. Stevens
1997 : Jerry Bailey
1996 : Jerry Bailey
1995 : Jerry Bailey

When I think of vintage Jorge Chavez - I think of his Breeders Cup Classic ride on the hopeless chance NY Bred gelding L'Carriere.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ydT4S...A54CBFBDE8DA99

The horse had the exact same running sytle as Cigar and was about the first throwout on paper because he figured to be looking Cigar in the eye and hooked with him for pretty much the whole way.

Chavez guns him out of the gate - and rushes up inside to get position on the tire tracks - the same tire tracks Inside Information rode that day - and under an all-out drive for almost every step of 10fs - L'Carriere runs 2nd to Cigar and is coming back to him late.

The "Chop Chop in the slop" was a VERY legit betting angle. Chavez's ROI on on wet tracks was incredible.

The guys who hated Chavez as a rider are the guys who don't value a jockeys ability on the front-end. He was very mediocre from off the pace.