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#1
04-08-2011, 12:02 AM
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Not only did the good people of Erie have the full card So. Cal circuit races on our local cable station as early as 1992 (before racing on the Internet) ... but the Erie OTB also started taking full card on So. Cal - and about 20-to-25 other track as early as 1992 or 1993. Either way ... it's not like Solis has improved any. 
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#2
04-08-2011, 12:43 AM
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Perhaps Hossy should award you the iron fist for debate skill?
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#3
04-08-2011, 01:04 AM
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I will never rival Pippy.
The following column describes the career of Alex Solis in a lot of ways ... http://www.drf.com/news/chavez-deserves-new-nickname-0 However, * Solis is not aggressive * Gamblers hated him instead of loved him * Solis never won a Kentucky Derby with a "smooth, flawless, tactical performance" * Solis never won an Eclipse award for being the nations best rider for a full year. Sadly - Solis did have a longer and more steady career on a tougher year-round circuit. He had far fewer peaks and valleys than Chavez. He was always that 5th to 12th best guy in the Jock's room. You know - the rider that you can often count on to screw one up - but still always look like a well polished pro while he's butchering a ride. Of course - IC loves Solis because he beat the hell out of Nakatani after Nakatani pushed another jockey off a horse during the gallop-out.
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#4
04-08-2011, 01:11 AM
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I always liked Solis, relative to other jockeys, that is.
It's really not possible for me to 'love' a jockey. I guess the closest would be Pincay. Being the go to guy for Mel Stute is hardly the same thing as being the go to guy for Frankel, Lukas, Baffert, etc. All that aside, your tenaciousness on this topic certainly does rival Pippy's incessant belief that the other person is wrong. He's the only person to ever outlast you in a horse argument. Today, you are Pip. Tell me you really don't think Chavez was better than Solis. Who would you rather have on your horse?
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#5
04-08-2011, 02:19 AM
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I wouldn't even consider either of them now. Chavez, in his day, was better though because he was a very good front-end rider and the greatest wet track jockey I've ever seen. He beat me countless times stealing races on the front at Gulfstream. He owned the old Gulfstream.
I never liked Solis on speed - hated him as a gate rider - and even though he has a reputation as a strong finisher who is good on deep closers .. I think he makes a lot of poorly timed wide moves. They both have no business in the Hall of Fame. Solis was never even a finalist for the Eclipse Award. Think about that for a second ... he's been established since 1984 ... and he never once was 1st, 2nd, or 3rd in the voting points for best season by a jockey.
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#6
04-08-2011, 08:31 AM
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Who got voted HOY in 2010?
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#7
04-08-2011, 12:42 PM
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Either way it doesn't make your point any less wrong. Just another attempt to move the goal posts.
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#8
04-08-2011, 12:45 PM
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Just to put an end to this on my end (I'm bored, but not this bored) I'm fine if none of them ever get in.
But if Borel should get in, so should Solis based on their career numbers. Chavez doesn't even belong in the discussion despite him beating DrugS on the front end at Gulfstream. Is it too early for a drink?
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#9
04-08-2011, 12:55 PM
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__________________
"An Absolute Thriller!!" - Grassy wins a six-way photo finish, Saratoga 9th, 8-22-09
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#10
04-08-2011, 01:00 PM
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I don't have 1/1000th the horse racing knowledge of these two combatants, but doesn't winning three different Derbies kind of trump 3,821 SoCal riding titles, at least in the eyes of turf writers?
__________________
The world's foremost expert on virtually everything on the Redskins 2010 season: "Im going to go out on a limb here. I say they make the playoffs."
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#11
04-08-2011, 04:10 PM
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#12
04-08-2011, 04:13 PM
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It would kind of be like sticking Dizzy Dean in the baseball Hall of Fame. Then again, baseball's Borel is probably Roger Maris or Kirk Gibson, and neither of them will ever get in the Hall.
__________________
The world's foremost expert on virtually everything on the Redskins 2010 season: "Im going to go out on a limb here. I say they make the playoffs."
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#13
04-08-2011, 05:10 PM
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Put it this way - Gary Stevens won 3 Kentucky Derby's - he won 10 Santa Anita Derby's - but only one time (1998) did he manage to win an eclipse. Both Calvin Borel and Alex Solis never once were even nominated for this award. Meaning - neither one ever finished in the top 3 in the voting points. The Kentucky Derby is by far the biggest event - and the toughest race for a rider - but it's still just one race.
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#14
04-08-2011, 05:29 PM
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When I think of vintage Jorge Chavez - I think of his Breeders Cup Classic ride on the hopeless chance NY Bred gelding L'Carriere. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ydT4S...A54CBFBDE8DA99 The horse had the exact same running sytle as Cigar and was about the first throwout on paper because he figured to be looking Cigar in the eye and hooked with him for pretty much the whole way. Chavez guns him out of the gate - and rushes up inside to get position on the tire tracks - the same tire tracks Inside Information rode that day - and under an all-out drive for almost every step of 10fs - L'Carriere runs 2nd to Cigar and is coming back to him late. The "Chop Chop in the slop" was a VERY legit betting angle. Chavez's ROI on on wet tracks was incredible. The guys who hated Chavez as a rider are the guys who don't value a jockeys ability on the front-end. He was very mediocre from off the pace.
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#16
04-08-2011, 08:08 PM
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http://www.equibase.com/premium/eqbP...try=USA&race=8
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#17
04-08-2011, 11:20 PM
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I was at Saratoga in 1995 when L'Carriere was 2nd to Unaccounted For (wnd choice in the Classic) in the Whitney. I was also there a few weeks later when he romped (with Bailey up) in the Saratoga Cup over Unaccounted For (not one of Pat Day's better rides). I was also there the following year when he defended his crown in the Saratoga Cup. He had great wet track breeding and ran his best races going 10 furlongs. Like I said, he wasn't as hopeless as you're making him out to be. Did Justin Dew steal your login?
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