If he wins - will they put him in the Hall of Fame?

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by Dahoss

You were wrong about Solis. The 5th-12th best rider in a room doesn't win 6 straight meets in a major circuit.

Ok - lets look at the Graded Stakes wins for the six meets consisting of that streak. Keep in mind - Solis won riding titles at all six of them.



'95-'96 Santa Anita winter meet: Graded Stakes wins

Stevens: 10
Antley: 7
Nakatani: 7
McCarron: 7
Delahoussaye: 5
Solis: 3
Desormeaux: 3


'96 Hollywood Park Spring meet: Graded Stakes wins

Nakatani: 7
McCarron: 6
Delahoussaye: 5
Desormeaux: 4
Antley: 2
Flores: 2
Bailey: 1
Solis: 1


'96 Del Mar meet: Graded Stakes wins:

Nakatani: 5
Antley: 3
McCarron: 3
Douglas: 2
Solis: 2
4 tied with 1


'96 Oak Tree meet: Graded Stakes wins:

McCarron: 4
Nakatani: 3
Garcia: 1
Delahoussaye: 1
Fires: 1
Desormeaux: 1
Antley: 1
Stevens: 1
Solis: 0


'96 Hollywood Fall meet: Graded Stakes wins:

Stevens: 3
McCarron: 3
Nakatani: 3
Solis: 2
Delahoussaye: 1
Velazquez: 1
Day: 1


'96-'97 Santa Anita winter meet: Graded Stakes wins:

Nakatani: 11
McCarron: 6
Stevens: 5
Flores: 3
Delahoussaye: 3
Desormeaux: 2
Solis: 2
Garcia: 1
Bailey: 1
Blanc: 1
Silva: 1
Almeida: 1
Black: 1
Douglas: 1



Basically - Solis was making his living in Cal Bred races and claiming races. The kind of races that already rich vets like Stevens, Eddie D, McCarron, and Desormeaux all wanted pretty much no part of.

Over that span - the younger Nakatani won 36 Graded Stakes to just 10 for Solis.

Chris Antley - who I honestly didn't even remember riding in So. Cal in the mid 90's - won more big races.

This begs the question - if Solis was truely one of the four best riders in the room during this time .... how come he wasn't getting it done in the big races?

[Dahoss]

It's that tough to admit, huh?

You want to keep changing the rules until you're somewhat redeemed, as now only winning graded stakes counts. We both know Borel can't compare to Solis in that aspect and I'm sure Chavez can't either.

But I'm interested in seeing a breakdown of Chavez's glory years and how his graded stakes wins compares with the other riders in his colony.

I'm just glad I learned the only races run in Southern California in the 90's were graded stakes, Cal Bred races and claiming races (apparently MSW's and allowance races didn't come along until the 21st century).

[The Indomitable DrugS]

If you bet those races - you'd know how brutal Solis was.

Everyone knocks Russell Baze for winning those type of races in No. Cal - but Russell was obviously a much better jockey than Solis.

[Dahoss]

Yeah that's it. I didn't bet then.

You didn't remember Antley rode in So Cal then, but you remember how bad Solis was.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by Dahoss

Yeah that's it. I didn't bet then.

I thought OTB's in New York didn't start showing Southern Cal racing until the late 90's?

Not only did the good people of Erie have the full card So. Cal circuit races on our local cable station as early as 1992 (before racing on the Internet) ... but the Erie OTB also started taking full card on So. Cal - and about 20-to-25 other track as early as 1992 or 1993.

Either way ... it's not like Solis has improved any.

[Indian Charlie]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

I thought OTB's in New York didn't start showing Southern Cal racing until the late 90's?

Not only did the good people of Erie have the full card So. Cal circuit races on our local cable station as early as 1992 (before racing on the Internet) ... but the Erie OTB also started taking full card on So. Cal - and about 20-to-25 other track as early as 1992 or 1993.

Either way ... it's not like Solis has improved any.

Your debating skills today rival those of Pippy.

Perhaps Hossy should award you the iron fist for debate skill?

[The Indomitable DrugS]

I will never rival Pippy.

The following column describes the career of Alex Solis in a lot of ways ...

http://www.drf.com/news/chavez-deserves-new-nickname-0

However,

* Solis is not aggressive

* Gamblers hated him instead of loved him

* Solis never won a Kentucky Derby with a "smooth, flawless, tactical performance"

* Solis never won an Eclipse award for being the nations best rider for a full year.

Sadly - Solis did have a longer and more steady career on a tougher year-round circuit. He had far fewer peaks and valleys than Chavez. He was always that 5th to 12th best guy in the Jock's room. You know - the rider that you can often count on to screw one up - but still always look like a well polished pro while he's butchering a ride.


Of course - IC loves Solis because he beat the hell out of Nakatani after Nakatani pushed another jockey off a horse during the gallop-out.

[Dahoss]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

I thought OTB's in New York didn't start showing Southern Cal racing until the late 90's?

Not only did the good people of Erie have the full card So. Cal circuit races on our local cable station as early as 1992 (before racing on the Internet) ... but the Erie OTB also started taking full card on So. Cal - and about 20-to-25 other track as early as 1992 or 1993.

Either way ... it's not like Solis has improved any.

We got full card for a ton of tracks by '94 or '95, maybe before.

Either way it doesn't make your point any less wrong. Just another attempt to move the goal posts.

[Dahoss]

Just to put an end to this on my end (I'm bored, but not this bored) I'm fine if none of them ever get in.

But if Borel should get in, so should Solis based on their career numbers. Chavez doesn't even belong in the discussion despite him beating DrugS on the front end at Gulfstream.

Is it too early for a drink?