social security

[somerfrost]

Originally Posted by ArlJim78

wow
So if I read this correctly, not only should the wealthy pay more into social security, (their "fair share"), but they should also get zero benefits?
your sense of fairness doesn't make a lot of sense to me.
this type of argument is always used to derail legitimate refrom of the program. its not going to be fixed simply by taking more from the wealthy. the big problem is the the declining number of workers supporting a larger population of retirees.

Never said the rich should pay more only if cuts must be made, the wealthy should be first and yes that is a socialist idea...so what?

[joeydb]

Originally Posted by somerfrost

Never said the rich should pay more only if cuts must be made, the wealthy should be first and yes that is a socialist idea...so what?

This is the United States, and socialism sucks. We don't want it. You want socialism? Go to Cuba, or China, or anywhere "red" enough.

Socialism is akin to a bunch of bums saying that they want more of someone else's money -- somebody who worked for it. Just like that mugger waiting around the next dark alley.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by joeydb

This is the United States, and socialism sucks. We don't want it. You want socialism? Go to Cuba, or China, or anywhere "red" enough.

Socialism is akin to a bunch of bums saying that they want more of someone else's money -- somebody who worked for it. Just like that mugger waiting around the next dark alley.

Good lord, you don't have a clue what Socialism is. Or Communism. You're just spitting out words you've heard.

[joeydb]

Originally Posted by Riot

Good lord, you don't have a clue what Socialism is. Or Communism. You're just spitting out words you've heard.

Let's make this simple: Whatever you want to call the "system" where the top 5% paying over 54% of the bill is NOT ENOUGH, I am opposed to it.

[joeydb]

By the way, everywhere but in political discourse, "fair" is pretty interchangeable with "proportional".

Larry, Moe, and Curly go out to lunch. Larry has one hamburger, Moe has two, and Curly, he's hungry, he has three. The "fair" breakdown of the bill is Larry paying 1/6 of the bill, Moe paying 1/3 of the bill (twice as much as Larry), and Curly paying 1/2 the bill (3 times as much as Larry and 1.5 times as much as Moe).

If we told Curly that he should pay more, since he ate more of the "resources" and he should supplement Larry and Moe, then we'd have what the left considers "more fair" but certainly not proportional.

It's "more fair" because until rich man Curly pays for the whole lunch, plus the lunches of the rest of the restaurant patrons, and a premium on top of that to the government, and a massive tip to the staff, it won't be "completely fair". See how little math it takes to come up with the liberal Democrat definition of fair?

[Riot]

Originally Posted by joeydb

By the way, everywhere but in political discourse, "fair" is pretty interchangeable with "proportional".

Larry, Moe, and Curly go out to lunch. Larry has one hamburger, Moe has two, and Curly, he's hungry, he has three. The "fair" breakdown of the bill is Larry paying 1/6 of the bill, Moe paying 1/3 of the bill (twice as much as Larry), and Curly paying 1/2 the bill (3 times as much as Larry and 1.5 times as much as Moe).

If we told Curly that he should pay more, since he ate more of the "resources" and he should supplement Larry and Moe, then we'd have what the left considers "more fair" but certainly not proportional.

Huh? Only in the Republican imagination. Reality - not so much

Republican reality is: Curly is wealthier, so he pays 1/6, and he makes Moe pay 1/2, and Larry pay 1/2, and then Curly gets another 1/6 rebate.

It's "more fair" because until rich man Curly pays for the whole lunch, plus the lunches of the rest of the restaurant patrons, and a premium on top of that to the government, and a massive tip to the staff, it won't be "completely fair". See how little math it takes to come up with the liberal Democrat definition of fair?

The Koch brothers, a Tea Party member and a teacher were sitting around a table with a plate of 12 cookies. The Koch brothers took 11 cookies for themselves, then told the Tea Party member, "That teacher wants some of your cookie".

[Riot]

Originally Posted by joeydb

Let's make this simple: Whatever you want to call the "system" where the top 5% paying over 54% of the bill is NOT ENOUGH, I am opposed to it.

Do you realize that about 400 people own half the wealth in this country?

Do you realize that our top ten corporations pay no corporate income tax?

Do you realize that while you are paying 28% of your income in federal taxes, those earning thousands more than you are paying a far lesser percentage?

And some want them to pay even less. You are the one that has to make up that deficit. As seen, for example, in Wisconsin: Walker gives immediate tax credits for corporations, immediate approx 8% decrease in income for librarians, prison guards, teachers, etc.

Want to solve financial problems and the deficits in this country? Stop the tax loopholes and credits and gifts to those persons and corporations that make six figures and more. Don't make them pay more - just stop the special gifts that enable them to pay less than everyone else. If that were done, everyone could then pay less. And we would all enjoy fully-funded social security, medicare, etc.

[joeydb]

Originally Posted by Riot

Do you realize that about 400 people own half the wealth in this country?

Do you realize that our top ten corporations pay no corporate income tax?

Do you realize that while you are paying 28% of your income in federal taxes, those earning thousands more than you are paying a far lesser percentage?

And some want them to pay even less. You are the one that has to make up that deficit. As seen, for example, in Wisconsin: Walker gives immediate tax credits for corporations, immediate approx 8% decrease in income for librarians, prison guards, teachers, etc.

Want to solve financial problems and the deficits in this country? Stop the tax loopholes and credits and gifts to those persons and corporations that make six figures and more. Don't make them pay more - just stop the special gifts that enable them to pay less than everyone else. If that were done, everyone could then pay less. And we would all enjoy fully-funded social security, medicare, etc.

Make one tax rate -- flat tax. That is proportional, and the mathematically closest to "fair" that you will come up with.

[somerfrost]

Originally Posted by joeydb

This is the United States, and socialism sucks. We don't want it. You want socialism? Go to Cuba, or China, or anywhere "red" enough.

Socialism is akin to a bunch of bums saying that they want more of someone else's money -- somebody who worked for it. Just like that mugger waiting around the next dark alley.

Really, I didn't realize that I was living in the US. Who are "we"? It's interesting that you can define Socialism in such simplistic terms. Sounds like something directly from the era of Joe McCarthy,

[AeWingnut]

Originally Posted by somerfrost

Really, I didn't realize that I was living in the US. Who are "we"? It's interesting that you can define Socialism in such simplistic terms. Sounds like something directly from the era of Joe McCarthy,

and Joe McCarthy was right

[Danzig]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...031004683.html


Everyone knows that the U.S. budget is being devoured by entitlements. Everyone also knows that of the Big Three - Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security - Social Security is the most solvable.

Back-of-an-envelope solvable: Raise the retirement age, tweak the indexing formula (from wage inflation to price inflation) and means-test so that Warren Buffett's check gets redirected to a senior in need.

The relative ease of the fix is what makes the Obama administration's Social Security strategy so shocking. The new line from the White House is: no need to fix it because there is no problem. As Office of Management and Budget Director Jack Lew wrote in USA Today just a few weeks ago, the trust fund is solvent until 2037. Therefore, Social Security is now off the table in debt-reduction talks.


well, now isn't that awesome. politics as usual. obama doesn't want him or his party to be the 'bad guy' and make changes some won't find palatable...a hot button issue, so let's avoid it altogether. ignore it, it won't go away. but let's just stick our heads in the sand, and let someone worry about it down the road. keep hearing how it's such an easy fix, but....if it's so effing easy, why isn't it being done?

[somerfrost]

Sooner or later, social security and medicare will need adjustments...no way to balance the budget without that. The question will be, do we attack the poor with cuts they cannot afford or do we make adjustments to the money the rich receive. Raising the retirement age would help some but eventually it will come down to that simple question...

[Danzig]

well, it sure would be nice if those we elected to change the current way of doing things would actually...oh, i don't know...do some changing. but no, business as usual. borrow today, spend yesterday, worry about the debt in another generation.