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#1
02-10-2011, 10:21 AM
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#2
02-10-2011, 10:34 AM
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The nerds who play fantasy sports and take it very seriously - and there are millions of them - are the people who could really get into racing if they could understand it.
How you reach those people is anyones guess - and how you keep them after they start losing 20% of every dollar they bet is also anyones guess.
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#3
02-10-2011, 10:59 AM
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This would have to be done primarily at two major tracks at first. And if popularity grows then expand the database to all tracks and have thousands of money stables. I'd go into more detail but it's a waste of text because there are morons in charge of horse racing.
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#6
02-10-2011, 11:26 AM
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Depends on the casino and the game (1-2 no limit, 2-4 limit...)
It is not typically done as a raw percentage (in the casino) but as a tier system (this much of the flop betting, this much of the turn betting, river, etc) and there is usually a cap. It is nowhere near as high as 20% if I had to guess the ballpark. Online might due a percentage (rounded to whole numbers) because the counting is that much easier. I haven't done it, so that's also a guess, but it would be feasible without slowing the game down.
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#7
02-10-2011, 05:29 PM
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__________________
Tom Cooley photo
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#8
02-10-2011, 12:31 PM
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Callers to ATR regularly wax nostalgic about the regional grocery chain horse racing TV game that had viewers watching previously run races on tape that generated prizes based on the game tickets they accrued at the market. People are STILL talking about it 40 years later! WTF? Doesn't that say everything we need to know? There are variations on this theme -- fantasy racing as Doug & Coach allude to -- that are very viable and marketable to the sponsors needed to make this work. I was broaching this subject with Satish as well Wednesday. It needs exploration and trial. The sport has nothing to lose...
__________________
All ambitions are lawful except those which climb upward on the miseries or credulities of mankind. ~ Joseph Conrad A long habit of not thinking a thing wrong, gives it a superficial appearance of being right. ~ Thomas Paine Don't let anyone tell you that your dreams can't come true. They are only afraid that theirs won't and yours will. ~ Robert Evans The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command. ~ George Orwell, 1984.
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#9
02-10-2011, 02:27 PM
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Steve I did not get to hear Crist's segment, but I will now seek it out in the archives.
If anyone does put up a good show about the sport, I'll definitely be watching it and promoting it to friends and family. Hell, my wife bought me both seasons of Jockeys on DVD. A lot of equine entertainment materials around my house. And if they EVER release Phar Lap on NTSC Region 1... 
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#10
02-10-2011, 03:06 PM
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I've sat in person at the WSOP and watched the final table unfold in real time. (I think the past two years the full table started the afternoon of BC Saturday). The amount of editing that goes into producing that show is pretty incredible, around 90% (say 16 real time hours cut down to 2 or 2.5 hours--with commercials). You could do something like that for the NHC--that isn't a problem. Here are the problems:
Handicapping a horse race is fundamentally different than making a poker decision. The latter lends itself to TV coverage and analysis, since the math (with hole cards) is plain enough. The former, not so much. And this is the "hook" for most people, not just seeing money change hands. Everybody has played poker, if even only badly. Most people have not truly doped out a horse race. A DRF looks more foreign to them than a WSJ. You have about two months of lead-in coverage to the WSOP final table (easy enough to do with 8000 players playing over a week in real time). Nothing like that for racing. You have year-round coverage of other poker tournaments which basically familiarize people with the process they are going to see at the WSOP--High Stakes Poker (new season starts later this month), WPT (new season starts Sunday), Poker After Dark (out of their repeats this week), Pokerstars series (in repeats now--season 1 just ended), and so on. I just don't see the two as comparable, fundamentally.
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#11
02-10-2011, 03:15 PM
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One difference between racing and poker is that poker takes 3 or 4 days of thousands of players and mashes it into 2 hours of only the most suspenseful moments, racing tries to stretch it's 30 seconds of excitement out to one hour.
The other is that in viewing poker on the TV, the viewer is omnicient. He knows who's holding what cards. Having that knowledge makes him feel superior to the game. Effectively, the poker viewer is redboarding every hand he sees.
__________________
RIP Monroe.
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#12
02-10-2011, 03:19 PM
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#13
02-14-2011, 11:28 PM
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#14
02-10-2011, 03:30 PM
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Has there ever been any attempt of tying horse racing in with the lottery and their terminals? I'll use NY as an example. Would it be beneficial (or even possible) for lottery retailers to sell tickets on races in NY? Tons of people sit in places like cafe's and bars to play keno (NY lottery offers a keno game every approx. 3 minutes) for hours at a time. It could be another wagering option for people instead of the usual lottery games. People play numbers twice a day in NY (actually 4 times if you count the pick 4 {another lottery game} which is offered in the afternoon and at night), come up with a strategy/marketing idea/game where people might want to play their numbers in some sort of sequance at a local NY track. Many people just want some action and if you give them the opportunity, I'm sure you will pick up some new customers.
Another thing that hurts the game (for at least the casual/newer people) is the lack of places that they could put a bet in. More so now in the NY area then ever with the closure of OTB. More locations to get a bet in would be a good thing. What good would it be to have some exposure on TV and for people not being able to put a bet in without having to travel all the way to Queens to get a bet in?
__________________
Felix Unger talking to Oscar Madison: "Your horse could finish third by 20 lengths and they still pay you? And you have been losing money for all these years?!"
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#15
02-10-2011, 03:41 PM
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This is a more realistic idea, although tying racing to the money vacuum that is the lottery has its downside. But unless you can show that this would lead to a lot more lottery play, why would a state do it? The take out on the lottery is HUGE. Why would a state want to encourage its lottery players to spend some of their money on horses, where the state gets a far lesser return?
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#16
02-10-2011, 11:56 PM
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#17
02-11-2011, 12:04 AM
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Re: Fantasy Racing. Will never, ever work. The lure of Fantasy Football is the predictability to when the games are played. No way to have such with Fantasy Racing. It will never, never, never, never work as a "hook".
Re: WSOP vs. NHC. Apples and oranges. What the previous poster said about understanding the how's and why's are the big difference. To see player A needs #3 to win to take the lead in the NHC is dull. We likely have no connection to the players or the horses, just the interest in seeing someone win a lot of money. Again...dull (unless it was me winning the money). One poster said something about people watching a horse race for a grocery store gimmick or something. It got me thinking, what a fantastic way for racing to get the non players to at least tune in and watch. Offer grocery store discounts to those shoppers that keep their receipt with a number printed on it for the Kentucky Derby. If that number horse wins, they win X from the grocery store. While not really getting my blood pumping, neither does cutting out a coupon for 10c off of white rice. People do it. If racing (whoever or whatever racing is) partnered with a big grocery chain and made the prize worthwhile it might spark enough interest to keep some engaged long enough to check it out. Couldn't hurt!! The tired ways they reach out to get public interest today is silly. Final comment.....I believe the real "hook" of racing is the racing form. Analysis. Educating guessing, etc. Develop a marketing plan that embraces that rather than hide it (i.e. game is a serious challenge for agile thinkers vs. it's super easy, just like pulling a lever).
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#18
02-10-2011, 03:04 PM
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__________________
don't run out of ammo.
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#19
02-11-2011, 09:24 AM
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I don't have enough time to handicap they way I would like to now.
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#20
02-11-2011, 09:52 AM
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The millions of people who play fantasy sports and take it seriously spend countless hours a week pouring over stats - it takes a lot of dedication and there is very little reward. I believe one survey even claimed it was the #2 reason given why women break up with their boyfriend.
The kind of guy who is going to juggle his fantasy outfielders around every day because.... 'guy A might be my 5th best hitting outfielder - but he is playing in high scoring Coors Field tonight - and going against a mediocre left handed pitcher. He's 11-for-24 lifetime with 4 HR's against this pitcher - and he generally feasts off of left handed pitching - guy B is my 2nd best hitting outfielder - he's up against Johan Santana today and he's 4-for-31 lifetime against him. I'll sit him and play the scrub' These are the kind of guys that horse racing would have a big chance with. Like I said - no idea how to reach them. That's racings problem to figure out.
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