The model is the World Series of Poker TV coverage

[tector]

I've sat in person at the WSOP and watched the final table unfold in real time. (I think the past two years the full table started the afternoon of BC Saturday). The amount of editing that goes into producing that show is pretty incredible, around 90% (say 16 real time hours cut down to 2 or 2.5 hours--with commercials). You could do something like that for the NHC--that isn't a problem. Here are the problems:

Handicapping a horse race is fundamentally different than making a poker decision. The latter lends itself to TV coverage and analysis, since the math (with hole cards) is plain enough. The former, not so much. And this is the "hook" for most people, not just seeing money change hands. Everybody has played poker, if even only badly. Most people have not truly doped out a horse race. A DRF looks more foreign to them than a WSJ.

You have about two months of lead-in coverage to the WSOP final table (easy enough to do with 8000 players playing over a week in real time). Nothing like that for racing.

You have year-round coverage of other poker tournaments which basically familiarize people with the process they are going to see at the WSOP--High Stakes Poker (new season starts later this month), WPT (new season starts Sunday), Poker After Dark (out of their repeats this week), Pokerstars series (in repeats now--season 1 just ended), and so on.

I just don't see the two as comparable, fundamentally.

[Linny]

One difference between racing and poker is that poker takes 3 or 4 days of thousands of players and mashes it into 2 hours of only the most suspenseful moments, racing tries to stretch it's 30 seconds of excitement out to one hour.
The other is that in viewing poker on the TV, the viewer is omnicient. He knows who's holding what cards. Having that knowledge makes him feel superior to the game. Effectively, the poker viewer is redboarding every hand he sees.

[tector]

Originally Posted by Linny

One difference between racing and poker is that poker takes 3 or 4 days of thousands of players and mashes it into 2 hours of only the most suspenseful moments, racing tries to stretch it's 30 seconds of excitement out to one hour.

It is even longer than that. There are four "Day 1s" and two "Day 2s". So just to get the field cut to 2000 or so requires six days of real play.

[Split Rock]

Originally Posted by Linny

One difference between racing and poker is that poker takes 3 or 4 days of thousands of players and mashes it into 2 hours of only the most suspenseful moments, racing tries to stretch it's 30 seconds of excitement out to one hour.The other is that in viewing poker on the TV, the viewer is omnicient. He knows who's holding what cards. Having that knowledge makes him feel superior to the game. Effectively, the poker viewer is redboarding every hand he sees.

Agreed. Major problem.

[MaTH716]

Has there ever been any attempt of tying horse racing in with the lottery and their terminals? I'll use NY as an example. Would it be beneficial (or even possible) for lottery retailers to sell tickets on races in NY? Tons of people sit in places like cafe's and bars to play keno (NY lottery offers a keno game every approx. 3 minutes) for hours at a time. It could be another wagering option for people instead of the usual lottery games. People play numbers twice a day in NY (actually 4 times if you count the pick 4 {another lottery game} which is offered in the afternoon and at night), come up with a strategy/marketing idea/game where people might want to play their numbers in some sort of sequance at a local NY track. Many people just want some action and if you give them the opportunity, I'm sure you will pick up some new customers.

Another thing that hurts the game (for at least the casual/newer people) is the lack of places that they could put a bet in. More so now in the NY area then ever with the closure of OTB. More locations to get a bet in would be a good thing. What good would it be to have some exposure on TV and for people not being able to put a bet in without having to travel all the way to Queens to get a bet in?

[tector]

This is a more realistic idea, although tying racing to the money vacuum that is the lottery has its downside. But unless you can show that this would lead to a lot more lottery play, why would a state do it? The take out on the lottery is HUGE. Why would a state want to encourage its lottery players to spend some of their money on horses, where the state gets a far lesser return?

[MaTH716]

Originally Posted by tector

This is a more realistic idea, although tying racing to the money vacuum that is the lottery has its downside. But unless you can show that this would lead to a lot more lottery play, why would a state do it? The take out on the lottery is HUGE. Why would a state want to encourage its lottery players to spend some of their money on horses, where the state gets a far lesser return?

That's the grey area for me. I know NYRA is a franchise, but they are obviously involved with New York State. I just have no idea how hand in hand they are and would want to be. Obviously it would be good for NYRA, the question is could they make a deal that would be good enough for the State that would entice them to go into this buisness together.

You would think that even if a few lottery retailers had the opportunity just to sell the tickets ,that would be good enough for NYRA and it wouldn't take much away from NYS.

[Split Rock]

Originally Posted by tector

I've sat in person at the WSOP and watched the final table unfold in real time. (I think the past two years the full table started the afternoon of BC Saturday). The amount of editing that goes into producing that show is pretty incredible, around 90% (say 16 real time hours cut down to 2 or 2.5 hours--with commercials). You could do something like that for the NHC--that isn't a problem. Here are the problems:

Handicapping a horse race is fundamentally different than making a poker decision. The latter lends itself to TV coverage and analysis, since the math (with hole cards) is plain enough. The former, not so much. And this is the "hook" for most people, not just seeing money change hands. Everybody has played poker, if even only badly. Most people have not truly doped out a horse race. A DRF looks more foreign to them than a WSJ.

You have about two months of lead-in coverage to the WSOP final table (easy enough to do with 8000 players playing over a week in real time). Nothing like that for racing.

You have year-round coverage of other poker tournaments which basically familiarize people with the process they are going to see at the WSOP--High Stakes Poker (new season starts later this month), WPT (new season starts Sunday), Poker After Dark (out of their repeats this week), Pokerstars series (in repeats now--season 1 just ended), and so on.

I just don't see the two as comparable, fundamentally.

Spot on!!!

[Split Rock]

Re: Fantasy Racing. Will never, ever work. The lure of Fantasy Football is the predictability to when the games are played. No way to have such with Fantasy Racing. It will never, never, never, never work as a "hook".

Re: WSOP vs. NHC. Apples and oranges. What the previous poster said about understanding the how's and why's are the big difference. To see player A needs #3 to win to take the lead in the NHC is dull. We likely have no connection to the players or the horses, just the interest in seeing someone win a lot of money. Again...dull (unless it was me winning the money).

One poster said something about people watching a horse race for a grocery store gimmick or something. It got me thinking, what a fantastic way for racing to get the non players to at least tune in and watch. Offer grocery store discounts to those shoppers that keep their receipt with a number printed on it for the Kentucky Derby. If that number horse wins, they win X from the grocery store. While not really getting my blood pumping, neither does cutting out a coupon for 10c off of white rice. People do it.

If racing (whoever or whatever racing is) partnered with a big grocery chain and made the prize worthwhile it might spark enough interest to keep some engaged long enough to check it out. Couldn't hurt!!

The tired ways they reach out to get public interest today is silly.

Final comment.....I believe the real "hook" of racing is the racing form. Analysis. Educating guessing, etc. Develop a marketing plan that embraces that rather than hide it (i.e. game is a serious challenge for agile thinkers vs. it's super easy, just like pulling a lever).

[joeydb]

Originally Posted by Split Rock

Final comment.....I believe the real "hook" of racing is the racing form. Analysis. Educating guessing, etc. Develop a marketing plan that embraces that rather than hide it (i.e. game is a serious challenge for agile thinkers vs. it's super easy, just like pulling a lever).

Another sentiment I totally agree with. Without the Form, I won't play, period.