All time best horses

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by somerfrost

Kelso was a warhorse, 5 times HOY and a record of 63/39-12-2, Dr Fager (ranked #21 by the way) was 22/18-2-1 (only out of money finish was a DQ from a winning effort). Zenyatta was a nose from being perfect in her career despite being a dead closer, the hardest racing style to compile victories. She can be criticised for level of competition but visually she was tremendous, looking at the great horses of history, the vast majority were stalkers with tactical speed...I personally upgrade her quite a bit because of her running style.

So she is ranked as the 11th best horse of all time because she was a closer and almost was undefeated? Wouldn't your case have more merit had she taken on the miserable group of older horses in the country more than twice? I understand that it simply an opinion however when you examine her record there are very few really historically signifigant performances.

[Cannon Shell]

Zenyatta is like Andy Pettitte. Pettitte is the all time winningist playoff pitcher in baseball history. He was a really good pitcher. But no one is calling Andy Pettitte the 11th or 12th best pitcher in history.

[somerfrost]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

So she is ranked as the 11th best horse of all time because she was a closer and almost was undefeated? Wouldn't your case have more merit had she taken on the miserable group of older horses in the country more than twice? I understand that it simply an opinion however when you examine her record there are very few really historically signifigant performances.

I think you nailed it when you said "miserable group of older horses", not sure racing against the males those years would really elevate her that much. I put a lot of stock in certain races...the Arc in France, the Triple Crown and the BCC, I have Tiznow at #34 because of his BCC wins (otherwise nothing that special), my lowest rated TC winner is Sir Barton at #51, and his effort was before the TC was even named.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by somerfrost

I think you nailed it when you said "miserable group of older horses", not sure racing against the males those years would really elevate her that much. I put a lot of stock in certain races...the Arc in France, the Triple Crown and the BCC, I have Tiznow at #34 because of his BCC wins (otherwise nothing that special), my lowest rated TC winner is Sir Barton at #51, and his effort was before the TC was even named.

Using that logic how is Tiznow rated below Zenyatta? Didn't he win the Classic twice? Are her narrow, all out wins over the weak fillies that she faced more impressive?

When you sit down and write down her list of accomplishments and compare to others she is usually dwarfed in achievment. She won a bunch of the same old, synthetic races in CA over and over. The Apple Blossom is NOT big race in this country.

[somerfrost]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Using that logic how is Tiznow rated below Zenyatta? Didn't he win the Classic twice? Are her narrow, all out wins over the weak fillies that she faced more impressive?

When you sit down and write down her list of accomplishments and compare to others she is usually dwarfed in achievment. She won a bunch of the same old, synthetic races in CA over and over. The Apple Blossom is NOT big race in this country.

Tiznow was 15/8-4-2. Zenyatta ran as hard as she needed to, margain of victory may not be impressive but her races certainly were. In a way, she reminds one of Kincsem who would often spot the field many lengths while grazing as the race began only to run them down at will.

[miraja2]

Originally Posted by somerfrost

In a way, she reminds one of Kincsem

True. They both raced against the local farmers' donkeys a bunch of times and people made a big deal out of them emerging victorious.

[DaTruth]

The ancient horses get extra credit because they raced at longer distances. As great as Secretariat was, he was unproven at four miles.

[hoovesupsideyourhead]

onion # 72

[Cannon Shell]

I've got Joe the Dude at 115 with a bullet

[hoovesupsideyourhead]

who is the best fla bred, ny bred, pa bred ..

[AeWingnut]

Originally Posted by hoovesupsideyourhead

who is the best fla bred, ny bred, pa bred ..

Silver Charm
Funny Cide tied with Zippy Chippy
Storm Cat

Bucks Boy best Illinois bred?

I have no idea
but it is easy to criticize my list

[Dahoss]

Originally Posted by hoovesupsideyourhead

who is the best fla bred, ny bred, pa bred ..

Florida- Dr Fager
NY- Komodo
PA- Go For Wand

[Indian Charlie]

Originally Posted by hoovesupsideyourhead

who is the best fla bred, ny bred, pa bred ..

Neil Drysdale had a PA bred back in the mid 80s that was truly outstanding.

His name was Electric Blue, and he only raced three times. He had two wins and a second in that awesome rendition of the Hollywood Futurity won by Snow Chief.

That horse had bigtime potential.